"How'd You Know That?": When Good Marketing Feels a Little Like Magic | IP 203

Ok - so let's get real - ok?

If there's one word that can make therapists and healers roll their eyes and groan, it's marketing.

(See? I heard you. Just then! I did!)

For so many of us, it brings up old images of pushy salesmen, unbelievable promises, and the yucky energy of trying to convince someone to buy something they don't really need.

But that’s not who we are, is it? No. It’s not.

So it’s not how we market - either. K?

In this conversation from our Summer Replay Series, couples therapist, Mika Ross, shares a refreshingly human perspective on marketing — one that has nothing to do with pretending to be someone you're not – and everything to do with helping people recognize themselves in your story.

And one idea from our conversation has stayed with me ever since we first recorded this… People don't connect with perfection. They connect with someone who understands them in a way that most don’t.

It's the moment someone reads your words and thinks:

     "How'd you know that?"

Yeah. That's where it all begins.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Why great marketing feels more like a conversation than a sales pitch.
• The powerful difference between sharing from a scar versus sharing from a wound. (I loved that so much…)
• Why your own lived experience may be one of your greatest professional assets. (Did you know this?)
• How authenticity helps your ideal clients choose you before they ever contact you.

So good.

You’ll also learn why trying to sound "professional" can sometimes create distance instead of connection.  (I have to watch that, myself.)

Mika is a pure delight.

And I think, after hearing her, you’ll stop worrying about saying that oh-so-perfect and witty thing. I think you’ll realize that all you really have to do is talk to your audience exactly the way you would in your office - as someone who gets them…

…and can help them move forward.

Enjoy. :)

~Wendy

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TODAY’S GUEST:  MIKA ROSS

Mika Ross is a licensed therapist, relationship coach, speaker, and mom to 3 who has dragged thousands of couples and individuals into better relationships, communication, and well being through her private practice, live workshops, and comprehensive online programs for 18 years. She also happens to be one funny, wicked, marketer.

Her Website
Her Podcast
Instagram
YouTube
Facebook

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Transcript

Wendy Pitts Reeves 0:00

You're listening to Ideal Practice episode number 203. And this is the next installment of my summer replay series, guys, where I'm bringing out some of my favorite conversations, interviews, episodes that we have had over the past three or four years here on Ideal Practice. And today is, oh my gosh, I had forgotten how much fun this one was.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 0:24

Today, well, let me just put it this way. Have you ever heard anybody in our line of work, healers, clinicians, health professionals ever say that marketing was fun? Yeah, not a common thing, but today's guest has exactly that kind of attitude, and she is fun to listen to. You get to meet Mika Ross, and if you have not heard what Mika has to share, you are in for a treat. Because this was absolutely delightful. Yeah. So stay tuned.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:08

Hi, I'm Wendy Pitts Reeves, and with over two decades of experience in the private practice world, I've built my six-figure business while learning a lot of lessons the hard way. This is the first podcast that shows you how to apply the principles of energy, alignment, and strategy to build a practice that is profit-centered, but people forward. This is the Ideal Practice Podcast.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:35

Hey folks, and welcome back to another episode of Ideal Practice. This is Wendy, your host. I'm so happy to be hanging out with you guys today. How are you doing? How's your day? How's your week so far? I know we're just getting started in the week. At the time that I am recording this, I just got back from a week at Colonial Williamsburg, which you guys heard me talking about a little bit before. And it did not disappoint. I tell you, I never ever get tired of that place. I learned so much on this trip. And I continue to learn every time I go about lots of interesting details about our country way back in the day. The focus in general was around the early 1700s.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 2:18

And just one little quick little tidbit to tell you how relevant this can be. One of the things I learned this time was that 70% of the businesses that existed inside the city of Williamsburg back in the 1700s were owned by women. How about that? And that they were treated with respect, seen as people of value, that they were there was no expectation that their husbands would run their businesses or that it was in some way unseemly. They were respected as a member of the community. So I love that. I love that. And I know it's true because Martha Washington told me herself, who was also, I think, a force to be reckoned with. So there's that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 3:00

That's how my that's where I've been, where my head's been. I am trying to bring it back to the modern century. Bear with me if it takes me a few days, but that's where I'm at today. So today's guest, let me tell you about her. You get to meet Mika Ross. She is a therapist. She is a couples therapist, or that's how I knew her, outside, located just outside of St. Louis, Missouri. We met through a coaching program several years ago. Um, although I only knew her for a couple of years in that program and then I lost touch with her, I have continued to follow her online, and I've been so impressed with the way she promotes her work online because it's funny, endearing, real, practical, and as a business coach, I have to say, really effective and impressive. And she does this in a way that I think the rest of us can learn from. And you'll hear some of this in the interview.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 3:52

She is so completely at ease with the importance and value of promoting herself and her services that that shows that comes across. There is no stress about this. She she her marketing is not twisted and strained in some way. She's just being who she is, and her practice is booming. She is doing really, really well. I think you can learn a lot from her. And I don't just mean about strategy, because we did talk about that a little bit, but the main thing that I take away from this conversation is how important the energy is. How important the energy is that you bring to your marketing. And you'll hear how she thinks about getting paid for her work, how she thinks about serving her audience, how she thinks about the value of what she brings to the table, and some pretty funny things about how she is choosing to show up in the world and tell her potential audience about what she has to offer.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 4:53 Wendy Pitts Reeves 4:53

So, without further ado, let's get in to this interview.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 4:58

All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Ideal Practice. I am so excited to bring to you our guest today. You've already heard a little bit about her in the intro, but let's bring her on board. Say hello to everybody, Mika. Welcome to Ideal Practice.

Mika Ross 5:15

Hi, I'm so excited to be here. I don't get to talk about this stuff very much.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 5:19

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Although you tell me people are beginning to ask you more about this.

Mika Ross 5:24

Oh, it's not beginning. They've I've had wanting to uh yeah. So I should probably be talking about it more. I've got to I've got to figure that out.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 5:31

That might be next. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you know this. So I've I've told everybody I've invited you here. So you and I met several years ago in group mastermind that we were in. Yes. And then lost touch. But I have sort of followed you over the years because your marketing for your practice is so freaking over-the-top awesome. Like literally awesome. And I think I mean, and and you don't know me that well, but I don't say it if I don't mean it. Like I really am have been just so impressed by it. And guys, I she she sent something out. I forgot what happened. Something that you sent showed up in my feed back in December. And I was like, wow, this is great. Look at this. And I like it totally pulled me in. I started reading about, I think at that point it was a course or a program, something you were doing about helping couples fight fair, something like that.

Mika Ross 6:20

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 6:20

But it wasn't even the content. It was just, it was so delivered so well. It just encapsulated what I think good marketing is for a for a psychotherapist that I was like, we've got to talk. I want to talk. And I went to your website and I was like, there's so much good stuff. So it's a lot.

Mika Ross 6:36

It's a lot of good stuff.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 6:38

Yeah. Say, yeah, say about that. Yeah.

Mika Ross 6:40

My website gal isn't wasn't too thrilled when I brought her on last year with all the stuff.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 6:47

Had you been doing it yourself up until then?

Mika Ross 6:49

I had. I had been doing it. I had been doing it myself. And you know, it's it's a lot. It's for someone that that's not their forte, it was a lot and it's pretty hodgepodged together. I think it, I mean, I think it was decent. And I think for a certain period of time in your business, uh, my practice was full. So it was really, it was hard to make a website and and it's expensive and and paying for a website a priority, you know, when when my practice was full. But when I, you know, my goal has always been to do more one-to-many, whether that's in in-person one-to-many or online one-to-many. And I knew if that's what I was really focused on, I needed to kind of up my website game. So all the courses and things that I have now live are built into the site, which is really elegant and seamless and not cheap.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 7:43

And not cheap. Yeah. Elegant and seamless and not cheap. Well, you know, I you there's a saying you get what you pay for, right? Um, and as you up your game, your level of investment should also increase. That's part of that's part of business. Yeah. Let's just start with who you serve and how you help them. Who do you help? How do you help them?

Mika Ross 8:02

Yeah. So my practice is about two-thirds couples and one-third individuals, men and women. And I I serve them in person, but I also have loads of online workshops and course programs that that I think is really different than traditional counseling. I I started to get kind of frustrated with traditional counseling. A lot of couples, when they start having issues, they often have young children in the home. And that seven-year itch is a real thing. And so when I started creating uh online pieces of my work, I also had young children. I think it was around the time that I had a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and a zero-year-old. And I have nothing but empathy for people who are having a hard time making the consistency and commitment work that it takes. It takes consistency and commitment to create change. And to do that with small kids and and babysitters and it's it's tough. And so I created some online pieces of my work just in the beginning, just to give people a way to continue to be consistent and to continue to chew on what we were discussing and to give me a way to kind of multiply myself. And I I found myself, of course, saying things over and over again throughout a week. And I started putting those things on post-it notes in the hall outside my office.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 9:28

Really? Okay.

Mika Ross 9:30

And I and sort of organized it into a course. But it really just started as supplemental material for my clients because I couldn't, I I could, you know, often at the end of the session, I couldn't, I couldn't. We spent so much time kind of digging through their latest struggle. And I knew I wanted to give them more to think about kind of in between sessions. So I so get that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 9:54

I like the look on your face as you're saying that. I'm like, I know that that feeling of you want to pour into people. Like there's so much more I could tell you. Right. We don't have enough time. And it is true. You spent so much time kind of rehashing the last week or the last drama. Yes, and there's so much more, so much more. So you started writing stuff down on post-it notes and sticking them on the wall outside your office so people couldn't see them. I looked at them. So you could play with them. Yeah.

Mika Ross 10:20

Yeah. I looked a little, oh no, people saw them. Oh, people saw them. I they were like, what's that? I was like, no, just don't worry about it. Oh, that's great. But I just I just started sticking them on post-it notes. And then the post-it note was kind of brilliant. And I've done this since then. And I've used, you know, one of those big I love those big post-it notes, those giant ones that you know you can kind of do presentations on. And I've stuck them there, which is then movable. You know, I can have it in my space or out of my space. But and then I was organizing the post-it notes sort of into like modules or lessons. And that that worked. It was sort of like the note card system that I think we were taught to use to write long papers when we were kids, you know, like yeah. Um but yeah, and in couples counseling, one of the really one of the really cool things that sending people home with some supplemental material can do and and in videos is, you know, after my first session, I'm often sending all couples the same video. And it talks about some really basic stuff in communication. And you know, oftentimes in therapy, you're taking so much time to build trust before you can deliver, like, well, how about we chew on this behavior change? Uh and with videos that I could send my people between session, they could sort of opt in to what was their part of maybe conversations that weren't going well or their part of the problem. And I didn't have to build trust. They knew because it wasn't coming from me in session, it was coming from me in this video that I just I didn't make just for them. It's not personal.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 11:53

Which which gave it a little bit of detachment, right? Yeah. And then they were easy, it was easier for them to hear it.

Mika Ross 11:59

And then they come in and go, Oh, I think I'm I think I'm critical. Or oh, I think I think I'm quick to get defensive. And I'm like, okay, yeah, let's tell you about that. And I didn't have to, I didn't have to deliver that directly in any way. So it really makes the process so much more efficient in this in ways that I just didn't expect.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 12:20

What an interesting idea. So so in the beginning, you were just trying to like there's there's more I want to share with them. So I'm gonna create a way that I can teach them outside of session. And you were doing was it video from the very beginning, or did you yeah?

Mika Ross 12:33

You know, I was asked by a local, uh, it was a great, it was a great concept. It for some reason didn't succeed, it didn't survive. But it was a large space for families. It was a restaurant, it was a coffee shop, it was a play space. They also had daycare and classes, and the owner and I were somewhat connected, and she asked me to do a course for couples. And that's that's I I actually did it first live. I had some, I had some videos, but the like my big kahuna course was first live, and then I recorded it into videos. I wanted, I got some feedback, you know, felt like it was it was it the and the feedback was we want more. So after a six-week course in person, so I started and I I really started then heavily incorporating that work into the the clients that I had at the time too. So I thought they can definitely benefit from this. So that's when I created some comprehens what I call comprehensive programs. There are a mix of an online course that I have and in-person sessions. So they've got some things to kind of work through and chew on in a in a in a way, and I've put it together with a lot of thought. It's it's it's strategically sequenced. And I just I think I have I think I strangely value efficiency.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 13:57

Strangely value.

Mika Ross 13:58

I do. I don't think that most people value if you know, my husband will even even just in the kitchen, will do this and then do that. And I'm like, but why didn't you do this and this and then that?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 14:10

Running.

Mika Ross 14:11

Like that was.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 14:12

You had to walk four extra steps.

Mika Ross 14:13

You went this and then that and then and he's like, leave me alone.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 14:18

I have my way, you have yours. Yeah, yeah. That makes me think, are you up what are what are you on the Enneagram? Do you know?

Mika Ross 14:25

I you know, I can't figure out the the Myers Briggs. Here's what I think is happening. The Myers Briggs nails me so completely that when I try to do the Enneagram, I and it doesn't nail me completely. I I I feel like I can't, I I don't I I feel like none of those numbers fit as well as ENFP.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 14:48

Ah, okay. Okay, all right, all right. But and I and I I want to though.

Mika Ross 14:55

I've tried and tried.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 14:56

That's okay. That's okay. I was just thinking about organization and structure, which is a strength of a one in particular, is where I was going with that.

Mika Ross 15:05

But I'm well, and it's not a strength of a P, and I'm actually 98% P. So this is but I've all I've had to develop J skills with my strong penis, you know, like I had to if I didn't have if I didn't develop strong J skills, I I would have floundered.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 15:24

Um, guys, if you all are listening to this and you're not familiar with the Myers Briggs, that's a whole nother conversation for another day. Yeah. Don't worry about that. But the but maybe one point to take away from this is that you work with your own natural styles and strengths. And sometimes as a business owner, you have to develop styles and strengths that aren't necessarily so natural. You have to learn lean into learning something new. So that that's also that's also part of what's that.

Mika Ross 15:48

Well, and I think it's too, and more than organization, I think it's the I didn't used to think I was a creative person, which now I kind of laugh at.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 15:56

Yeah.

Mika Ross 15:56

It wasn't that it wasn't that long ago that I picked up Liz Gilbert's Big Magic, which is for creative people. And I was like, I don't really know why I'm reading this. I'm not really creative. And it made me realize all the ways in my business. I'm very creative. I'm very good at seeing the big picture, and then reverse engineering something into how how other people might learn it the quickest or might get the most out of it with the least amount of time. But I don't know that I can organize. I am not consistently an organized person.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 16:33

Okay. Okay. So so what you said, your core bus your business model right now. Let's start with where you are now. Right now, your core service is couples work primarily and some individual, but psychotherapy. From that core business, you have expanded the way you serve people, right? And it started, if I understand, with like little videos to give them in between sessions to teach them basic concepts of healthy relationships, right? Yes, and that has developed and and and expanded over the years. You've been in practice a long time. How I I can't remember now.

Mika Ross 17:02

How long since 2006?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 17:05

Yeah, yeah. So a long time. Gosh, yeah, coming up on 20 years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you should know something by now. And this is great. Yeah. So so what are all like just to give people kind of an overview? And then I'm gonna go somewhere with other. I'm hitting my microphone. I should not talk with my hands. Give people an overview of like what are some of the offerings that you have out there right now? What are what are some of the programs or services that you're offering in addition to your basic?

Mika Ross 17:34

Yeah, well, and I and I think the landscape has sort of has changed since I started doing this. And so originally I started out, you know, with some some free offers that, you know, were in the form of webinars. And I I don't I don't really subscribe the to the idea that that's the only way to have a free offer anymore. Yeah. But I still, it still lives on my website. It's called a free training for busy couples. It's long. And if people have the attention span for that, they can totally opt into it. It's got a ton of great information. And then I have a how to not get stuck, which is a shorter workshop for couples.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 18:14

How to not get stuck.

Mika Ross 18:15

How to not get stuck. So in communication, I find that you know, if if people are entering a tough conversation and they don't necessarily have the skills to get all the way to a resolution, they're getting stuck in the attack-defense cycle. So somebody perceiving criticism and somebody getting defensive. And in that place, we just kind of hit this gridlock where it either escalates and we're not getting to an escalation resolution, or one person is you know, kind of shutting, shutting down, still not getting to a resolution. So how to not get stuck is a very short and sweet, succinct workshop for couples to get them moving in the right direction really quickly. And and then I have, you know, some things that if people like I said, my practice is full. I have a wait list, and that's really when I started making tidbits of things that people could opt into that maybe can't be my client or yet, or maybe can't afford to be my client, which I totally understand. I think you know, counseling, of course, has gotten so expensive. And most of the time, couples counseling is not covered by insurance. Yeah, so so I I I I a large part of why I do this is I I want to reach as many people as I can. This isn't rocket science, it's it's uncomfortable, yeah, but it's not rocket science. Yeah. So I think that everybody deserves to have the tools to have happy relationships. And I don't, I, I, I know that this is probably not a super popular opinion, but I don't know that it always requires counseling. I think counseling is helpful for and it's but I think for you know, like my husband, he doesn't he counseling's not he's not gonna be a lifelong person in therapy. I can sit on somebody else's couch and talk about myself all day. I'm constantly trying to figure out like you know, what's the meaning of life? And you know, my husband's probably thinking about the Roman Empire or something.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 20:20

Oh my god, that's a hoot. Yeah. Yeah, not everybody is right, and and different things work for different people. I have noticed that you're calling yourself a couples therapist and relationship coach now. So how has that evolved from like how tell me about that part?

Mika Ross 20:36

You know, it's interesting. I think it really just started because I originally when I started my blog way back when, the my only goal was to change people's minds about therapy. And I think some people, especially back then, like therapy was kind of a dirty word, and it was only for people who were broken or something was wrong with them. Like it was a shameful thing. And so I and I think that I, you know, and I I don't know that I necessarily agree with most people's definitions of counseling and coaching, but I I do think that, especially when it comes to communication, there's a lot of psychoeducation that can be so helpful that isn't necessarily about digging into your past. And I think digging into your past can be helpful to figure out what lens you're kind of seeing everything through. But I also think that shifting the ways that you communicate and getting you different results in the here and now inherently sort of shifts your lens. Yeah. So I think it's this interesting two way street, and you can do it from one way and you can do it from the other way, and you can do it from both ways.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 21:47

Yeah.

Mika Ross 21:48

I love it. But yeah, but other than so, I have some programs for couples. I've got a I've got a program and community for moms called Well Mama that it currently isn't open now. It'll be, you know, stay tuned if if Want to hear more about that? Get on my newsletter list on my website. And I think that's it. Couples, moms, communication.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 22:08

So you've got, do you have are all of these paid? Are some of them paid, some free?

Mika Ross 22:14

So yeah, the free training for busy couples is free, and the how to not get stuck workshop is free.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 22:21

Okay. And so paid. So, folks who y'all who are listening to this, if you if you tune into online business training of any kind, the the terms you will hear for that are a lead magnet. That's what a lot of people will call it, a freebie. The coach that Micah and I both worked with called it a valuable free offer, which is a habit. I still call them a VFO. That's what I say all the time. I always have to tell my team what that means because nobody says that. But it is. So just to sort of explain that concept, the concept is that you have something for free on your website that people that is useful. It's not junk, it's not fluff. Something that actually will help people that they can download for free. And in return, they give you their name and their email address. And with that, you begin building a mailing list, an email list where you can contact people and tell them about what you're up to or share information that can help them. So you've got a couple of those. And this is also a point. People often think you have to have only one or one that's perfect or whatever. And that's not true. You can have lots of them. They can change. I have tons of them, right? And I rotate them in and out depending upon what I'm focusing on at the at the time. So okay. So all of yours are so those two that are lead magnets or VFOs are sh short, sort of do it your DIY courses of types. And then you have programs that you sell that for fee, right? And are those like are they are they evergreen courses that people can take at any time or are they live courses? Are they something you only offer once a year? Tell me about that.

Mika Ross 23:54

So the the couples course that I have, learn how to fight, is evergreen. And I'm like, I know that the Gottmans just came out with a book with a really similar title, but I named this thing before they did.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 24:10

By golly. Let's just get that on the record.

Mika Ross 24:14

There's a little bit different, but learn learn how to fight is evergreen. I will periodically run sales on it. But the Well Mama course in the past and at times is live. We will do six-week deep dive. And for that, when I launch, when I launch that periodically throughout the year, well, well mama, there the the first module, I really just make a free live workshop that people can attend. And then if they want to opt into the rest, to keep going, they can for a price. Oh, that's great. Yeah, it's it's so it's so well mama is a ridiculous value for for what it is. There's a community for moms. We we're on Zoom, but we've got you know Zoom rooms where you know a few people can, you know, get together and discuss things. We do QA's. There's we cover six topics live over six weeks. And yeah, and then I do retreats for women throughout the year too that are live. So yeah, this is what I mean when I say I have a lot going on. My my website. My website gal is like, now what now? Like how how it took her a while to figure out how to organize it all on the site. She did a beautiful job.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 25:26

That's that's great. Well, so this is how your brain works, though, right? You're constantly creating new things or coming up with a new way to deliver something you've already got.

Mika Ross 25:34

Or I see a need, or like, you know, I have moms coming in constantly, and it's the same. And and when I just have a mom in the room and not a mom and her husband, yeah, the conversation's different. Or when I'm speaking to when I built when I was building my practice, I did a lot of free speaking to moms groups.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 25:51

Yeah.

Mika Ross 25:51

And the conversations that I was having with just moms was really different. And they were really hungry and they're really struggling. So I I I say that Well Mama is a course for women who are tired of saying, Why do I have to tell you what to do? Why can't you just know?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 26:10

Yeah, no. Oh, I love that. Why do I have to tell you what to do? Why you can't why can't you just know? Which, like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Everyone who's hearing this, I guarantee you, if you are a counselor, know a lot of not everybody who listens to this are psychotherapists, but those of you who are, I know you can relate to this because I have heard that 4,000 times in my own life. Um, it is a conversation I have with people over and over and over. Yes. And that is a brilliant example. So of one way to think about this. So what so it's sort of a theme that I'm noticing here, Micah, is that you you really are good at identifying repetitive problems, repetitive needs, repetitive statements that people say all the time. And and once you see it, and y'all, this is something you can all learn from. When you have have any, maybe some of you guys can relate to this. I I experienced this myself, even now in my own counseling work, that I will tell clients sometime, oh, that's the theme this week. Because I have I would find myself telling the same story all week or using the same homework exercise all week or using the same metaphor. And I'm like, oh yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's the theme of the week. And it happens all the time. And that very concept, why can't you just know? We all hear that. And really good marketing is just saying back to people what they're saying to you in language that they're gonna go, how'd you know that? How'd you know that? Well, I know because you tell me over and over.

Mika Ross 27:43

I look at so many, and that's I don't know, so many. Oh, I have. I have you know, it it's a real struggle when a family member or good friend asks me for uh a therapist referral uh for something that they need specifically. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I don't, I don't know the person offhand, but let me help you search. And when I search and look at therapist websites, yeah, the majority of the time it's it's just reading me your resume. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 28:11

Yeah.

Mika Ross 28:12

And I'm like, I can't see myself in your website.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 28:16

Yeah.

Mika Ross 28:17

I can't, and then I don't connect and I don't re it's not relatable.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 28:23

Yeah.

Mika Ross 28:23

Uh it's it, my, my, my husband saw a therapist for a a little while, and in the search for his therapist, it was okay. But then, and and and part of the work that they were doing together was my oldest daughter has ADHD. And then and he needed he needed help. He needed help. We all need help figuring out how to deal with our children and dealing with our children who are not neurotypical.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 28:52

Yeah.

Mika Ross 28:53

And so come to find out this guy has ADHD, it wasn't on his website, his kid or kids have ADHD. If that would have been on there, yeah, it would have been such an easy decision. But people aren't thinking of like their specific, they're trying somebody, I think it's probably Christine Kane who said this, but like if you're marketing to everyone, you're marketing to no one.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 29:22

Amen. A hundred percent. Absolutely.

Mika Ross 29:24

And if he would have said, you know, here a little bit of my history. I don't I love that you're, you know, licensed marriage and family therapist, awesome. But if you would have told me that you have personally experienced ADHD, experienced ADHD and you parent, I would have been like hired so fast. That would have made and people don't think to you know, in in include some of like what is specifically unique to them on their website. And I think you know, school kind of scares us from that. Like we're supposed to be these blank slates.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 29:59

I see, I see two extremes. I see either people are doing that where it's super technical, it is very much like a resume, and it is using a bunch of terms that nobody even knows what that means, nor do they care. I don't actually don't, or it's the opposite extreme where you don't really tell me anything, and it's a it's a lot of really beautiful, flowery language that also tells me nothing.

Mika Ross 30:22

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 30:23

My my pet peeve, and sorry, y'all who are if if this feels like you when I'm talking to you, I promise I'm not fussing and I'm not judging because I've done it myself. But we we tend it cracks me up. I can read like 10 10 psycho psycho uh psychology today profiles, and they all sound exactly the same. I I believe that your answers are within, and I will help you find your inner guidance. And I believe that all of us are called to a height, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. It tells me nothing. It tells me nothing. So, why do I have to tell you what to do? Why don't you just know that's real, that's in everyday language?

Mika Ross 31:03

Well, and one of the when when I started writing my blog way back when, and I also, this is this is where the idea my whole presence online came from a history. My my parents have both been married three times. And when my parents divorced, my mom would look at me often and say, Do you do you think you need to go to counseling? And like every other 12-year-old on the planet, I was like, No. No, she was like, Do you worry a lot? Now, I probably did worry a lot, but everything's relative. So I only knew what my brain did. I didn't know that that was a lot until later in life when I reduced that worry. And then I could look back and go, Wow, I was really riddled with anxiety. Yeah. But my best friend that I made in in high school, her mom was a therapist. And she was just Linda.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 31:57

Yeah.

Mika Ross 31:58

And she was so easy to talk to. And at that time, finding a therapist was flipping through the yellow pages and just, you know, praying. Um and I thought if I could just be Micah, yes.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 32:14

Yes. Then just be a real person.

Mika Ross 32:17

And the interesting thing, I remember learning in school that you know, like the mode number of times that somebody sees the therapist is one. I don't have that because I think that people either, and I'm not saying I'm for everybody, I've got unfollows on Instagram every day. But the people who I am a good fit for figure that out way before they sit down on my couch. And there's already some trust there. And I the one of the first blog articles I wrote was was uh was uh about you know my past not being perfect. I did not come from a perfect family. I know exactly what a terrible relationship looks like. I know that it's that it's sneaky and insidious the ways that relationships deteriorate over time. I know what being in a step family feels like. Um and my husband, who had degrees in marketing and business, which I mean from the 90s, early 2000s, they're probably probably just not even relevant anymore. A marketing degree from back then was like, I I don't know if this is very professional. Right. And I said, honey, yeah. I said, good, I'm not trying to be professional. I'm trying to be me. Not in a way that's like, whoa is me, here's my sad sap story, but you know, sharing from a place of a wound versus sharing from a place from a scar. It's just it's different. And when you've healed something, when you feel like you have a good relationship with maybe, you know, some crappy cards that you were dealt, sharing from the place of a scar is so valuable to other people. It's like I've I've climbed this mountain. Let me show you how.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 34:04

Let me show you how.

Mika Ross 34:06

Sharing from an open weeping wound, you know, is like a cry for help. And knowing the difference, I think has been helpful for me in deciding what to share and what not to share.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 34:16

That is a really critical point. And I do think that this is one of your strong suits. And you, in fact, you said this to me last time we talked. You said something like, I think I'm I do an unusually, what did you say? I'm I'm I'm unusually me online, like you, you know, like I am, I am who I am. And you know, here you get the real thing here. And and and I I want to sort of talk about this a little bit because I think in today's world, the word authenticity is thrown around a lot, so much so that it's gotten to where it's losing its meaning or its value. I think we have to be careful about this. And there is a difference between using your story to encourage and inspire, and using your story to join with other people in their pain in a way that says we're both are you know, we both suck and life suck, you know. What can you do about it? I love that idea of a scar versus a wound. If you are still suffering, if you are still in the middle of whatever that is, yeah, you probably don't want to use that in your marketing because you're you're not there yet. But if you have been, you've walked through fire a few times in your life, and who hasn't at any point, all of us by the time you reach any age of significant call, you've got a story or ten. Right.

Mika Ross 35:27

And if you've done and if you've done the work, that's probably part of your superpower, and it's not something to hide. Put that ADHD on your website.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 35:38

So I know who you are and I know you get me. I know who you are and I know you get me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I began to figure that out when I had a a psychologist, a cut one of my business partners back in the day, referred somebody to me and she said, Wendy, I've been seeing so and so, but I want I'm gonna send her to you because she needs somebody to give her a kick in the pants. And I really think she needs you. And I went, I was like horrified. I was like, oh no, is that what I do? And she said, Oh yeah, it's great. She needs it. And I was, I mean, I'm a nine on the Ennegram, which means I don't like conflict. I avoid conflict like crazy, which is a problem. And I can also be very direct and can be tough when I need to be, right? And so I I went from apologizing to for that to owning that. And I'm not gonna beat you up, but I am gonna tell you what I think. And if you're looking for somebody to nod their head and say, mm-hmm, I'm probably not your person.

Mika Ross 36:33

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 36:33

And it made a huge difference. My clients changed and my practice grew. Yeah, once I owned that.

Mika Ross 36:39

When I was I I was in a PhD program for a long time, I did not finish. I realized most of the way through with a very young baby that I didn't want to be in academia or do research. So what am I doing here? Why am I here? But I worked for the department and my program director, he I I kind of went into his office one day having a total imposter syndrome meltdown. Yeah. I was sobbing, and he was this warm, very nurturing, older, like he's gay. I don't know what that has to do with anything. I just I do he's he, I don't have to really sweet energy. He had what I think of as like sort of some like motherly nurturing energy, not that that only belongs to women. Um but I was sobbing in his office, and my kids call him Uncle Dr. Pope. Um, he passed away. Uncle Dr. Pope. Yeah, he passed away last year. But I was sobbing and I was like, I I can't do this. I'm I'm not cut out for this. I my I'm I come from like total dysfunction, I don't belong here. And he grabbed my arms and looked me in the eyes and said, Micah, you have x-ray vision into other people's pain because you've had pain. I can't teach that. And that's when I realized that my not perfect background, I started to realize, I won't say that day, like I 100% was like wearing that as a badge of honor on that day, but it started a shift for me that oh, this might be a good thing. My background might give me a leg up. Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 38:39

Who are those people? Yeah. I don't know those people. Well, I think those are those people who know they didn't come from a perfect background and those who don't know they didn't come from a perfect background. But you know, yeah.

Mika Ross 38:49

Well, and I I think in at the time I perceived that people, you know, my my background is pretty objectively quantifiably, you know, when I can say both of my parents have been married three times, that's something you can count on on your hands. Yes, and some people's parents are still married, and to me that looked like function, functional. Um, and so I think the perception, I don't, I don't, I don't walk around thinking I'm more dysfunctional than most people, or I came from a more dysfunctional background than most people.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 39:19

No, but you know what pain feels like, and so you know it when you see it, yeah. Right, and you connect with it and that x-ray vision thing, like that, I do think that's what we have sometime. And I do think the more self-aware we are and the more work we have done of our own, which is critical, the better we are at this. And and I mean, I I just had a flashback. The first time I was ever in any like really serious deep therapy where I was doing some real work, I had an appointment, a standing appointment every Friday morning at eight o'clock. And somewhere pretty quickly along the way, I would walk in the door and pretty much like start crying as soon as I said hi for no reason at all. Like I'm having a perfectly fine morning. What in the heck is this about? And I remember the therapist saying, She said, uh, I said, I hate this. What the heck is this? Like, I'm fine, you know, and I would just get emotional as soon as I got there. And she said, she said, You've you've learned that this is the crying place. And I, well, that sucks. I don't want that.

Mika Ross 40:18

It's the safe place.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 40:20

I hated it, but she said, she said, you will be a better therapist for having had this experience. And I have never forgotten that. And she's right, because I know what it feels like to sit and that's on that side of the couch or that side of the chair, right? And what I love about this for you, Micah, is that you take this real experience of life, this self-under awareness, self-awareness, understanding, and you translate it into video, audio, teaching in person and online, so that those who need what you have to share can connect with it, relate to it, understand it. And if we're lucky, come and get some help.

Mika Ross 41:00

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 41:00

That's what we want. Come and get some help. So you're saying to people, listen, not only do I have real life training and honest to God credentials, and yes, they mean something if you care about that, but what I really have is life experience, and I'm not afraid to share that with you. Yeah. In an appropriate way that I think actually is professional. Right. Right. So it's not so black and white. This is powerful. Yeah.

Mika Ross 41:25

Yeah. Thanks. I know I just met with a couple of therapist friends, and they're like, they really, I they really like what I'm sharing online, but they have like an internal struggle with what they learned in school and how how much to share and how much not to share. And I they're like, how how how do you how do you do that? How do you decide?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 41:49

Yeah.

Mika Ross 41:50

I I um I had a I had a mentor who I think I learned a lot through stories.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 41:58

And we all do.

Mika Ross 41:59

So she would share, you know, not from a place of a wound, but from a place of a scar. When appropriate, she would share stories. And I those were very helpful for me. And it didn't feel I understand the intent of you know not wanting to share too much of yourself or you know, to cross boundaries as a therapist into, you know, like the friend zone. And yeah, there's a difference between, you know, somebody saying, God, I'm so depressed, and you going, Yeah, me too.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 42:30

Yeah, me too. Right. Don't do that. Right.

Mika Ross 42:35

And, you know, like I had I had clients last week where he he called her a bitch. And, you know, we we we talked about we talk, we were talking about it and talking about it. And it it I think that when that happens, it's didn't happen in session, it happened out of session. But yeah, you know, it's it's hard to for the person who is name-called to not go into this like righteously indignant place, which they are totally justified to be in, by the way. Yeah, you know, name-calling is not okay, and simultaneously that's not gonna get anybody to a resolution or to a place where there's less name-calling and more understanding and more vulnerability. And so I tell a story, I and I'm not gonna tell the whole story, and you can find it at if you just search Micah Ross, like doesn't love hugs, you'll find a blog article where I talk about one morning where my husband called me a bitch because we had miscommunicated about love languages a good six years into our marriage, um, and how we got through that and how I got underneath that, and how it I realized he wasn't particularly feeling loved. Yeah. And he was interpreting my lack of physical affection as I didn't love him.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 43:46

Yeah.

Mika Ross 43:46

And so, yeah, when you're hurt, we'll hurt people.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 43:51

Yes.

Mika Ross 43:52

Understandable doesn't make it okay. Understandable, though.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 43:56

So yeah, understandable doesn't make it okay, but once you understand.

Mika Ross 44:00

It you can do something about it, is how I always feel like yeah, and continuing to teach people a lesson about how they did how what they did wasn't okay isn't isn't gonna get in anyone. You'll you're stuck. No, you're you know how not to get stuck, you're stuck. And so I told that story, and by the end, they had both softened because they both felt deeply seen and understood in that story. And also, like, you know, I think too, a little less shame, like, oh, my therapist's husband. I'm sure my husband's really gonna be thrilled that I that I should. I have name called too. Let me just throw myself under the bus. Neither, neither of us are perfect, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 44:35

Um, right.

Mika Ross 44:35

And while he doesn't bring degrees into this relationship, he does bring a very phenomenal sense of humor, which I really which gets us through about half of the interactions.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 44:45

My training doesn't. So I the this is such a good point because when we think about the concept of marketing, which makes everybody I know break out in hives, like all marketing is to me, is a conversation that is a service to those that you want to help when done well. It is a kind of the conversation about how much you understand them and how you can help them. And telling your story or parts of your story or allowing part of your own, your your true self to show, whether it's as part of your marketing or for that matter, in a session as part as a story that you tell. Like there isn't there isn't some discernment there in terms of what to do, what to say and when to say it and how to say it. The way I was always taught was the the the filter to use was am I telling this story because this is going to help you? This is good for my client, or am I telling you this story just because I just want to share?

Mika Ross 45:43

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 45:44

Right. And I have to watch that all the time because I can talk a lot and I can tell stories all day long. And if I relate to what's, and sometimes it has nothing to do with what they're there for. We're talking about travel and I want to tell a travel story, whatever. I have to watch that. And I think for people who are a little anxious about the concept of marketing, I want you to hear what Micah is saying that when she is real, like sort of startlingly real, but not inappropriately real. That's the key here. That it makes it so much easier for her people to find her, understand her, connect with her, and want to hire her.

Mika Ross 46:20

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 46:20

Which is good for her business, which is why we're in business, and good for them. Yeah. Because they're gonna get what they need. That's a win-win. Yeah, yeah. So I want to ask a little bit one thing about marketing, then I want to get into sort of the structure and the how-tos in the background. Okay. In terms of the whole concept of marketing at all as a therapist, like what is your what how do you think about it? And how did you get did you ever have that kind of icky feeling? Or has that not been a problem for you?

Mika Ross 46:52

Oh no, yeah. I I really felt a lot of a lot of ickiness. You know what I mean, right? Yeah, a lot of ickiness about it. It feels, you know, you don't want to be a car salesman, but I had to really remind myself constantly that I'm not selling lemons.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 47:05

Yes. And so yeah, which I'm not selling lemons.

Mika Ross 47:11

I'm not selling lemons. Um, yeah, and I think that when I really when my I didn't intend to work with mostly couples, I do I do have degrees in marriage and family counseling, but my practice sort of and word of mouth sort of decided that for me. And I think I realized that if I was going to be working with couples and I wasn't gonna be dealing with a lot of insurance, that I had to make a decision to be on insurance panels or to market myself.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 47:46

Yeah. And honestly, I was you have been self-pay from the beginning, right? You never did insurance.

Mika Ross 47:52

Yeah, from the beginning. And so I yeah, I I made a really conscious decision. And marketing myself was a lot more creative and fun than fighting with insurance companies to pay their bills. And I think probably takes the same amount of time. So hold on.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 48:12

That's a writer-downer. Marketing myself was more fun and creative and takes about the same amount of time as it would to be fighting with insurance companies to get paid.

Mika Ross 48:23

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 48:25

Yeah. Am I getting my right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I can use my time to chase after reimbursement for services I've already delivered and try to get paid for work I've already done. Or I can just learn how to promote myself and it's creative and fun. No one says that, Micah, about marketing. Marketing is creative and fun.

Mika Ross 48:44

I get to write, I get to, you know, sometimes I'm making things on Canva, which if any of these things aren't your jam, like yeah, like when you say my marketing is great, there is this little piece of me that's like, really? Yeah, because I I don't necessarily do it if if as you know, if you watch these people who are, you know, their expertise is in marketing and their expertise is in social media marketing, I'm not nearly as consistent as they want me to be.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 49:11

Right.

Mika Ross 49:12

I'm as consistent as I can be.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 49:14

Yeah.

Mika Ross 49:15

And that has that has worked for me. So I don't, I think you have to find what feels good for you. If I was doing something that felt dreadful, if writing to you feels dreadful, don't do it. So the people are gonna feel that. Yeah, you know, and I and I and you know, making videos, I think there just is an element of dreadfulness, especially in the beginning. But I I think it's it's the quickest way to get yourself out there and relate to people, especially nowadays. And you get some positive feedback and it starts to not feel so dreadful. And but yeah, it's it's it's creative and fun. And I, you know, I sometimes I wear silly wigs in my videos. I'm trying to figure out the most succinct way to say something. Sometimes they're silly, sometimes they're not. Yeah, but it's I would much rather be doing all of that than fighting with the insurance companies. Now, you might be different, and that and if that's the case, then you do you.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 50:15

You do you. I love that. Yeah, you I was just looking at I had I wrote down here that you tell me last time that you were really good at figuring out systems and tech. So let's talk. So we talked a lot about being real online. I because I what I was thinking is you may not be as consistent as some think you should be, but what you are is effective and you market in a way that works for you. You are effective. That's the ultimate, that's the point of all of it. Like if you got that, you're good. So tell us like, what are you doing from a market? What does marketing look like for micros.com? What are all the things that you do? This may be a whole other hour. I don't know.

Mika Ross 50:52

This is well, it's you know, I I try to post real, I am really fly by the seat of my pants. I tell you, I I I, you know, there's not a whole lot of rhyme or reason. If I start to see themes, like you said, in my sessions throughout the week, I I have a note in my phone that's entitled Reals, and I jot it down in my phone. And then if I have time here and there, I but I also schedule time. Like all my whole Wednesday is dedicated to working on my business and not in my business. Friday afternoons are dedicated to that too. I could also do that Monday and Tuesday mornings. So, and I I I in the program that we were both in, it was pretty drilled into us, you know, like when we were asked what we did, and I said, Oh, I'm a therapist and I work with couples. And, you know, the coach looked at me and said, No, you're a marketer. Yes, she did. Yes, and I was like, Oh. And it really challenged me to, you know, make time for it. And if you it's it's a worthy thing to make time for.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 52:05

Your attitude about this, I think, is part of what draws me to you so much because you're because your energy is is important. The energy you bring to anything that you do is important. And if the energy you bring is dread and resistance, it is gonna suck the work that you're doing. And so right.

Mika Ross 52:20

And so some weeks of making a reel does feel like dread and resistance. And, you know, and I have lots of things that in my you know, marketing pie that I could be working on yesterday. I didn't make a single reel. Yesterday was Wednesday. I worked on, I have a podcast coming out, but I needed to do some back-end stuff on my website to make speaking of being good at systems, yeah. I have realized that the systems I have around technology and phone time for my kids are things that not a lot of people have figured out. And so I'm gonna do a workshop on it. I'm gonna do a workshop on how I manage technology and phone and screen time in our house and and what technology we use, how I set up the systems. But that that the first podcast that I recorded was with the the chief officer of 988, the Suicide Hot National Suicide Hotline. And we talked a lot about technology. And so, anyway, on the back end of my website, I'm having to create the graphic for the workshop that I'm gonna do about this because that'd be a really great thing to talk about at the end of the podcast. So the podcast isn't out yet, but it's called How to Talk About It.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 53:35

And this is that you're launching, you're launching your own podcast.

Mika Ross 53:39

Yes, yes, congratulations. We've got a few recorded, and that's you know, it's just there's a lot of details that go. Yeah, but so so yesterday I was working on that creative stuff and I didn't create a reel. And then, but the day before I dyed my roots and with root, you know, with the cap still on my head, I made a quick reel.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 53:59

Goodness gracious. Okay, that's I'm probably not gonna do that, but that is great. So, so what do you do? Do you still have a blog? Are you writing or are you know?

Mika Ross 54:10

I think that Instagram has really taken the place of my blog, and I think I could be repurposing a lot of what I post on Instagram on my blog. And I should probably put my assistant in charge of that now that I'm saying all this out loud. But this is what I mean when I say what I'm doing isn't perfect. But it I don't think that it really has to be.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 54:31

Right. So you're posting on Instagram pretty often, it sounds like. And most of what you're doing are short videos, short reels, right? And you create those, it sounds like a blend of intentionally with a certain amount of structure and planning, and also on the spur of the minute when the mood hits you or the inspiration strikes, right?

Mika Ross 54:50

So the idea that I had for the reel that I recorded earlier this week, it came to me a long time ago. It's about asking for what you need. If I say to my husband, tell me how good I look, scale zero to 10, and he says 9.5, does it mean any less because I asked for it? No, that was the real. But I had I just dyed my roots and I was looking at myself in the mirror and I was like, okay, well, this would be a funny time to record this.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 55:15

Yeah.

Mika Ross 55:16

And I and they say that, you know, weird visuals and get people to look at your real. And so I did it with the cap on my head.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 55:23

Yeah. Real and funny and brave. Yeah. So you and your humor is a big part of it too. Like you're funny. But you also told me that you had recorded one time after you'd had a fight with one of your teens. You got a house full of teenagers now, right? And that you it was a really upsetting thing, and you came in and recorded. You had been crying. And I'm like, wow.

Mika Ross 55:45

Well, it wasn't a fight. I actually had been crying because and it wasn't, it wasn't a fight. This was this is my one of my most popular reels, and the Gottman Institute actually picked it up and reshared it. Um, I had an interaction with my teen the weeks prior that I had had in my reels list, and I had had I I create just sort of like a bullet journally goals list every week with just it's really not anything interest worthy. It's just circles of things and next to them things I want to do, and I fill in the circle. Um, so I just had that I I had wanted to get a reel done that day, and sometimes that just forces me to do it real quick. And I was actually, I had been crying because I got the yes from 988 that they were gonna do the interview with me. And she had been on the Sunday morning show, and I I I that's where I saw her first. And so I was just I was so thrilled that this was working out, and I just landed a really big interview, and so that made me teary. And I was like, I have 30 minutes to record a reel if I'm gonna do it today. So my makeup wasn't perfect. Some guy recently commented that my lipstick wasn't blended enough, which are you kidding me? No, no, a million a million views. I've probably gotten tens of thousands of followers from this. The Gottman Institute shared it, but some dude, that's all he had to say. Blessed. But yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't need we don't need to be dancing. We don't, I mean, sometimes just share, and this is the thing this interaction that I shared. It's the first thing pinned on my Instagram page was a real interaction with my teen and how I dealt with it.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 57:25

Got it, yeah.

Mika Ross 57:26

Like how I dealt with her slamming the refrigerator door shut right after I'd spent $450 at the grocery store and saying, There's never any food around here. Which so many people can relate to.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 57:42

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Mika Ross 57:44

So I've just like, how can you think more about documenting your life than it doesn't have to always be wigs and creating and sometimes it's just me sharing a simple story about yeah, yeah, we dealt with something around here.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 57:58

Yeah. I think when you tell me that before, I I was blending those two things. Right. So I'm glad you I'm glad you straightened me out on that because I was like, that was really something. But your point is that you don't have to be perfect, just be who you are and meet your goals. Your goal was I'm gonna do this today, I'm gonna create this today, whether you feel like it or not, do it. Yeah, um, which is also important because that is also so it there's this sort of happy medium here between structure and flexibility. Like to promote your practice, you have to be real. You also have to be seen, and you have to be seen in some kind of a regular basis. So setting your structure in a way where I'm gonna produce this this week, whether it's a blog post, whether it's a video, whatever it is, whether it's a podcast, you have to do it because that's you have to show up, you have to show up for your people.

Mika Ross 58:45

Yeah, well, and as a P Myers Briggs, I I'm I'm I'm sort of allergic to high structure. Yeah. And so for me, what works easy better is just having certain things that I want to complete throughout the week and one way or another. You know, if it doesn't happen today, it can happen tomorrow. And yeah, you know, having my husband and I meet on Saturday mornings and we're a little bit of accountability for each other on those things. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so yeah, I I think you have to figure out what works for you. If I had my day hyper-scheduled, I'm not fail every day.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 59:23

Well, you're setting your the way I as I understand your process that you've got a target that's gonna happen sometime this week. The specifics of how and when is a little fluid because things unflow, unfold as they fall. But you still have a target, and more often than not, you reach that target, right? Right. Yeah, that that's good. Yeah, I can I like that. What would you say is the biggest mistake or maybe mistake's not the right way to think about this, but what's the biggest mindset issue that holds other healers, whether they're psychotherapists or whether they're other kinds, like you know, you could be a Reiki practitioner or a massage therapist, whatever. What is it? What is the biggest thing that you think holds people back from really just shining their light and getting out there and telling people what they do?

Mika Ross 1:00:09

I think that this was I I mean, I definitely had a lot of work to do around this too. But it's I think it's charging for helping and charging for healing. It's it seems like there's a real, that's a real sticky area for a lot of people. And it feels like we're simultaneously harming them and helping them.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:00:32

Just by charging for what we do, by having a feet.

Mika Ross 1:00:34

Yeah. But you know, that chat that coaching program that we both did was was probably the thing that convinced me the most because it was not cheap. It was the most I had invested in myself since graduate school. And I needed, if I was gonna be in a business for myself, I needed to learn about business. And man, did that price tag hold my feet to the fire?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:01:00

Yep.

Mika Ross 1:01:00

Yep. And make me do things that I might not have done otherwise.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:01:07

I'm not gonna ignore this.

Mika Ross 1:01:09

And I've got to do this uncomfortable thing because I just paid all this money. So I've got to create change. Yes. And I think that, you know, I, you know, even when I was working, you know, at the university counseling center, we we could have charged nothing for our services, but you know, we were encouraged to they, I mean, I think our student clients had to pay ten dollars per session just so they had some investment because there is some psychology in that investment and having people invest in themselves and invest in the results, they're gonna be more likely to get there. Yeah, and if you in and I the I am not it's gonna be easier for me to help more people if I'm charging for my services. Yeah, I so it's it I I had to do a lot of work to see it as a win-win win. And it was it was hard.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:02:01

But it's not a game, and this isn't we're not twisting something to make something okay that isn't. It really is a win-win, right? For everybody because yeah, and I I agree with you. I think so. When I market, so the whole concept of marketing, if I go out there and say, hey, everybody, I'm great, you should come pay me a ton of money, that feels sleazy and salesy and totally out of alignment with our values as healing arts professionals. On the other hand, if I'm like, if I see and own that I actually do know something, like I've got, I know what I'm doing here, and I can't help everybody, but I can help a lot of people. And if I don't tell you about that in a way that has some confidence behind it, you have if I don't trust it, if then you shouldn't trust it either. And if I don't think this is worth paying for, then why should you think it's worth paying for? Right.

Mika Ross 1:02:52

Well, yeah, and you're also modeling how to honor yourself and your worth and value. Yep. And I I wouldn't that's I'm not gonna dim my light or my worth and value because that's not gonna help you. It doesn't help the request of your own. Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:03:11

Yeah. Well, this is where I always say that money is a therapeutic issue because all the ways that we address money in our practice, the way we talk about it, feel about it, um, manage it with our with our clients, it is every bit as much a part of the work as anything else that we do. And this is one of the hallmarks is that when we honor our own worth, we are modeling for our clients to honor theirs. And your point earlier about the program that you and I met in, I mean, that was a 10, it was like 7,000 program dollar program, and then I went up 10 and then 12 and then 15.

Mika Ross 1:03:43

I think I got in when it was five, maybe, but oh, you were in really early.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:03:47

Yeah. Yeah. It is and and and today those kinds of prices are even higher than that. So but it is it is very common, y'all, to join a program, a lower level coaching program is going to be 3,000 and they're gonna go up to as high as 20. And I've heard plenty of stories who have of people who've paid for that kind of money and did not get the value out of it. So, yeah, of course, do your homework and listen to your heart. And if it doesn't feel right, don't do it for sure. But what you're saying, Micah, is that when you invested in a big way, you grew in a big way. And that's exactly what your clients do with you. And to me, all of that is tied in with the whole concept of marketing, why it is okay to market, that you have to believe in what you're doing. And learning how to sell, if I can say that, it feels like I know that that just goes against the grain because we are not taught that in school. That's the business college down the street. That's not social work where I was, right? No, we're not doing that. Um, I used to I used to speak every year at the local university, College of Social Work, would do this big all-day program for incoming graduate students, and they would put a panel together of social workers to come and talk about life in the field. And there'd be like six or seven of us, and we'd be talking about childhood poverty and domestic violence and addiction issues and oppression and racial justice and all good things, all good things. And I would be the only one in the group that would say, You deserve to get paid well, make sure you negotiate for your salary. And and I would talk, I talked about public service because I served a term in office, and I talked about running a business, and I would be swarmed afterwards because my message was so different from everyone else's. And I'm not diminishing that. I am a social worker to my core. Yeah, and when you make good money, you have a good living, and you have a great service that is you can serve thousands of people, make a huge difference, and get paid well. Yeah. And in your business, you've got different price points. So folks can access help no matter what they one way or another, they can get something. Exactly. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. And I feel like I feel like I preach this all the time. You talk about the message you come back to over and over and over again. This is the message I come back to over and over. It is, I think it is my it is my life's thing. My whole life's work is to get people to believe in themselves and stop apologizing because you want to get paid well for what you do. Yeah.

Mika Ross 1:06:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:06:25

And your whole your marketing, your marketing really is good because you don't apologize for that and you own it and you put it out there and you are real. It's beautiful. So there.

Mika Ross 1:06:34

I mean it's taken some work to get there. But yeah. I mean, I've I I I don't have any issues with marketing anymore. It doesn't feel icky to me at all. And I think when you have the when you when you start to do it and then you start just like with anything else, you know, when I tell clients that, okay, we're gonna we're gonna choose vulnerability when next in the next thing that we say, it's hard, it feels uncomfortable, but then you get you get the positive reinforcement afterwards. Yeah, I think marketing's kind of the same. It gets easier.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:07:08

Yeah, totally. 20 years, you've been working on this for 20 years, and this is what it looks like. Which sounds like a lot, but actually, you know what? I see that as you're just you're just growing up. You're growing up. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. So Micah, this is Austin. So for people who want to learn more about you or who want to see an example of of how you show up in the world, what's the best way for them to find you?

Mika Ross 1:07:32

So I'm on Instagram to both, and that's Micah Ross, that therapist, M-I-K-A-R-O-S-S, like Betsy. And my website is mica ross.com. So between those two places, there's a whole lot of resources and free clips, free workshops, free trainings. So that's that's a great place to see uh what I'm doing.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:07:55

Love it. And I actually think that your website, your some of the things that you're offering could be a resource for my clients, like my counseling folks. Like I can say, go see what she's got. She's got some good stuff. So y'all look her up and notice how notice look at her website and notice how her messaging presents who she is and poke around a little bit because you're learning not only who she is as a human being, but also how she helps people and learn learn from that. Learn from that. It's really good.

Mika Ross 1:08:26

Well, and I will say, when I worked with the, I told you my website was expensive, but my messaging between the new expensive website and the old not expensive website is not very different. And I often go against what is recommended, you know, and say a little bit more than what my website gal wants me to say. She wants it smaller so she can fit it in and make it pretty. But, you know, to make it, I I do it more like you can scroll through if you want to and go into different sections. But I think that it's important to convey who you are and that you understand where I want people to see themselves. Yeah. So yeah, I I hope it's pretty and relatable. But that's yeah, that's up for everybody else to judge, I guess.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:09:10

Well, I would say of all of that, what matters most is the message more than anything else, actually. You can have a you can you don't even have to have a website, you can have a Facebook business page, you can have an Instagram page. But as long as you are real, your message is clear and your offer is clear, how you serve people, how you help, and what step they can take to approach you. Like tell them how to tell them how to find you, tell them what to do. Because they are overwhelmed. If they knew what to do, they would do it already. So make it simple. Here I am, here's how I can help. Call me or email me, whatever it is, or go go try this free thing I've got online. Do that. Yeah. Yeah. Micah, thank you for this today. Um it's it is fun and wide-ranging, and your creative, funny, all out there spirit is such a great example for the rest of us. I don't know that I'm ever gonna be dying my hair on in front of anybody. Actually, I quit doing that a long time ago, so it doesn't really matter anymore. But but that is that's a really funny story and a great, great example. Is there I always ask people before I close, if there's any, is there anything that that we haven't talked about, anything I haven't asked you, or anything that you just feel called to share that would make this conversation complete?

Mika Ross 1:10:26

Oh my gosh. What a big question.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:10:31

It's only a lot of people.

Mika Ross 1:10:32

You know, I think I would say, you know, I the things that I do on the on on the internet and in my blog, I did them with my family. My kids don't like my online presence. My husband would never be this personal online. And and I don't don't wait for other people to be in agreement with how you want to do things or because you're not you're not trying to be authentic to them, you're trying to be authentic to you. And I I you know, I wonder if as my kids mature they will appreciate what I'm doing a little. Now they just find it cringy, which I totally understand. What teen wants to hear their mom talking about sex drive on the internet? Not one.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:11:25

What teen wants to think their mom has a sex drive on?

Mika Ross 1:11:28

Yeah, exactly. So so yeah, I don't, you know, if there's some in and the things that I wanted to do in my business and the visions that I had, you know, like that's that's it was so sort of felt like this drum beat that was inside of me. And I I I for a little while was hoping to convince everybody on the outside of this thing that they couldn't see yet.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:11:49

Yeah.

Mika Ross 1:11:50

And I realized that I had to create it and then go see, look, look what I made. Yeah. My husband's like, I never would have done it this way, but it's totally worked for you.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:11:59

Yeah, because it's real for you.

Mika Ross 1:12:01

Yeah, but it's not his, it's not his way. He has a business, he does it totally different.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:12:06

It wouldn't work for him. It wouldn't work for him, right? Which is fine, which is what is which is what ideal is. When I'm talking about an ideal practice, my point is that everyone's practice is different. What's ideal for you is different from someone else. Same goes for marketing. What's ideal for you is different from someone else, but you do need to be marketing, you have to get the word out there about what you do. Yes, so that's great. And don't wait for approval. Don't wait for approval. Do it your way. You do you. That's the message. You do you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. Love it. Thank you, Micah. This is really great.

Mika Ross 1:12:38

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:12:40

Yeah, it's been fun. And I can't wait to hear. I will make sure when your podcast is live, tell me. And I come back and I'll I'll link it in for sure. Oh, thanks.

Mika Ross 1:12:49

That would be great. Perfect.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:12:51

It's a big deal launching a podcast. I know.

Mika Ross 1:12:53

I know. I keep telling people next week. I should have just, you know, my grandfather built a house over seven years, and he the joke was he should just tell people it's going to be done on Tuesday when they would ask, but he never said which Tuesday. I should just start telling people it's going to be done on Friday. Because it's you just keep I'm like, oh no, one more nice. There's some more. There's some more things, some more okay.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:13:13

It's okay. And it doesn't stop once you get it launched because then you have to keep it going. There's all that, but you'll do fine. You'll do fine because you've got systems. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, my friend. Thank you for being here with us today on Ideal Practice. It's been a real, real treat. And um so good to reconnect with you and and to see how well you're doing. I love it. And I hope that this will inspire and encourage some of my shyer folks out there to get out there and shine a little bit brighter. So thanks, Wendy. Yeah. All right, everyone. With that, we will bring this to a close. But I hope you've enjoyed this. I hope you'll go back and listen to it maybe more than once and go check out Micah's website and follow her on Instagram. You heard that. We'll have that link down below as well, in case you didn't catch it. Have a great week, everybody, and I'll see you next week right here. Back, same bet time, same bat station on ideal practice. Bye now. Hey y'all, if this program has become important to you, if ideal practice matters, it would mean so much to me if you'd be willing to take just a minute to do one or two of the following things. First of all, would you follow or subscribe to the show here at Ideal Practice? Following me helps you because you'll never miss an episode, but it helps me as well for all kinds of reasons. To do that, all you have to do is go to the show page for Ideal Practice on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. There, just click on the plus sign that you'll usually find in the top right hand corner, or click on the word follow that you're going to find somewhere there on that page. Of all the things, this really is the most important thing you can do for the podcast itself. While you're there, it would be extra special if you would be willing to give me a five-star rating. And even better than that, a review with your own words. Your words matter. And when you write what you feel, what you think, you uplift and encourage others. And I love that. If you want to go a step further than that, take your favorite episode or two, one of the ones that has meant a lot to you, and share it with a friend. Could you do one or two of those things for me? I promise I will love you forever. You guys matter to me, and I value your support more than I can possibly say. Thank you, sweet friend, for anything you can do to help me out and support the show. I'll see you again soon.