How One Therapist Built an 8-Figure Practice Without Losing Her Soul ⭐ | IP 202

THIS was the most fascinating conversation!!!

When you hear what I’ve got for you today, I think you’re in for a surprise - a completely new way of thinking about private practice.

I don’t know about you, but it seems to me that - in general - we all assume that growth means seeing more clients, working longer hours, or opening another office. Because - what else could you do, right?

Well — what if there were another way?

I’m bringing back this favorite for our Summer Replay Series, when I spoke with Dr. Ajita Robinson, a grief and trauma therapist who has built an extraordinary mental health organization by thinking differently.

Through strategic partnerships, genuine relationships, and an unwavering commitment to serving others well, she's created an 8-figure practice without sacrificing the life she's building.

And yet - this conversation isn't really about building an 8-figure business.

It's about building a business that's aligned with who you are.

Along the way, Dr. Robinson shared how her early career in pharmaceutical sales unexpectedly prepared her for private practice (that’s a funny story!), why people don't want to be sold to (they want to be served) and how understanding someone else's needs can open doors you never imagined.

Whether your dream is to remain a solo practitioner, build a group practice, or simply create more freedom in your work, I think this conversation will stretch your thinking in all the best possible ways.

It sure did that for me! 💗

In this episode, you'll hear:

• What she learned selling Viagra at age 18 that still shapes her business today. (Didn’t see that one coming!)
• Why you’re never starting from zero, even if it feels like you’re starting over.
• How one simple relationship-building strategy helped this therapist grow from one office to more than 150 clinicians across 7 states. (😱)

But more than anything, you’ll hear about Ajita’s determination to build that kind of success without sacrificing the things that mattered most in her life.

And that’s what got me. :)

See - you really CAN build a practice that's not only wildly successful, but also deeply aligned with who you are and how you want to live.

Sometimes the biggest breakthrough isn't learning something new—it's seeing what's been possible all along.

I hope this conversation helps you do exactly that.

~Wendy

P.S. And hey - if you've been listening for a while and wondering what your own next step might be, I'd love to help.

Whether you're looking for more clarity, more confidence, or simply another perspective on where your practice is headed, a Quick Start Consult is a great place to begin. It's a focused 90-minute strategy session designed to help you get unstuck, see new possibilities, and leave with a clear plan for what comes next. Learn more here.

I'd love to work with you. 💟

_______________

TODAY’S GUEST: Dr. Ajita Robinson

Dr. Ajita Robinson is known as The Experts’ Therapist. She is a Grief & Trauma Therapist, award-winning and bestselling author of The Gift of Grief: A Practical Guide on Navigating Loss, a TedX speaker, International Speaker, and Income Strategist.

She is a first-generation trauma and poverty disruptor who helps mental health entrepreneurs create living legacies and financial freedom while helping communities heal. (I love that.)

You may have seen Ajita in places such as Good Morning Washington, Headspace, Wall Street Journal, Huffpost, Washington Post, CNBC, Business Insider, Bustle, Essence Wellness House, and Therapy for Black Girls.

Website | Linkedin | Instagram | Facebook
Book: The Gift of Grief: A Practical Guide on Navigating Grief and Loss

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Transcript

Wendy Pitts Reeves 0:00

You're listening to Ideal Practice episode number 202-202. Today, guys, I am bringing you the third installment in our summer replay series. This is a series where I am bringing back some of my favorite episodes, some of the best conversations and interviews, those that we have had here on Ideal Practice that are especially powerful and especially inspirational. And today is no exception. Today I am bringing back Dr. Ajeta Robinson. Dr. Robinson was a woman who will touch your heart and inspire you to think about your business in a whole new way. Her story itself is incredible, but the business acumen that she brings to the table and to her clinical work is kind of mind-blowing. So I was thrilled to get to meet this beautiful human being, and I think you will be too. If you haven't heard this one, or if it's been a while, you gotta hear it. So stay tuned. Hi, I'm Wendy Pitts Reeves, and with over two decades of experience in the private practice world, I've built my six-figure business while learning a lot of lessons the hard way. This is the first podcast that shows you how to apply the principles of energy, alignment, and strategy to build a practice that is profit-centered, but people forward. This is the Ideal Practice Podcast. Hey guys, and thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Ideal Practice. This is Wendy, Wendy Pitts Reeves, your host. I have someone really special that I want to introduce you to. So let me tell you about Dr. Ageta Robinson. Dr. Robinson is known as the Expert's Therapist. She's a grief and trauma therapist, an award-winning and best-selling author of The Gift of Grief, a practical guide in navigating loss. She's a TEDx speaker, an international speaker, and what's special for us today, an income strategist. And by the end of this interview, you will understand what that means. She's been seen in places like Good Morning, Washington, Headspace, Wall Street Journal, HuffPo, The Washington Post, CNBC, and Therapy for Black Girls. After serving as a grief and trauma expert for over a decade, she began to leverage her years of clinical experience and a previous career as a corporate consultant. You're going to hear about that. To launch a mental health practice and scale it to eight figures. You heard me right, eight figures. She is a first generation trauma and poverty disruptor who helps mental health entrepreneurs create living legacies and financial freedom while helping communities heal. And I know what it sounds like when you hear a bio like that. It sounds quite polished, it sounds almost a little bit over the top, it sounds like somebody you might not be able to relate to and you're even maybe a little bit skeptical of. But I'll tell you after hanging out with her now for a couple of times and different phone calls and conversations, she's the deal. She's the real deal. And her story explains exactly how she got to where she is today. And the cool part, what she's doing, has some very specific strategies that you could implement if you wanted to that could be pretty life-changing, not just for you, but for everyone you do business with. Hello, everyone, and welcome. This is Wendy. Thank you so much for tuning back in to another episode of Ideal Practice. You guys know how much I love hanging out with you every week because that is like this is like the highlight of my week. And today, I am so not kidding when I tell you that you are in for a treat. I know I say that all the time, but you really are in for a treat. You already heard a little bit in the intro about my guest, Dr. Ageta Robinson. Wait till you meet the real thing, y'all. We have we are going to talk about a whole new way of thinking about your practice that it's, I think it's kind of mind-blowing. And I think you're going to love this. So let me just say hello, Dr. Robinson. Ageta, come on on and say hi.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Hi, Wendy. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have this conversation and just to get an opportunity to talk to your community as well. So thank you so much for the opportunity.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 5:13

Absolutely. We have had a time getting here, I tell you. We've had lots of scheduling and stuff and all kinds of things. And here we are. And during our, we had a pre-call where I wanted to learn a little bit more about you. And I was telling you that I had to go back and watch that again because I was so impressed by it. I didn't even take notes. Normally I take notes, but there were so many goodies that I just thought, I'm not even going to write this down. I'm just going to go back and watch it because it was so good. So let's start. Let's kind of set the stage. Tell everybody just a little bit about where you are, who you are, what do you do? Who do you what I like to say is who do you help and how do you help them? Let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yes. Um, so I am in Bethesda, Maryland. Um, I'm a Midwest girl. So originally from St. Louis, Missouri. Um, when I get excited, that accent comes right out. So it's like I'm a group practice owner. So I have a large group practice here in um the Barlin area, but we also have clinician stationed in about seven states now. I think last time we talked, we were seven states? We have seven. We have clinicians in seven states. Okay, I didn't know that. Um and our team is a little north of 150 clinicians. We have admin team members. We are co-located in, we have our main office, and then we're co-located in OBGYN, pediatric, Cairo, and speech pathology offices. We're up to 17 and a couple more contracts underway. So that's what I do on the clinical side. I'm a grief and trauma therapist. And so, from a direct practice perspective, I actually work with first generation poverty disruptors and trauma survivors. That's clinically what I do.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 6:44

But on the first generation, what is it? First generation poverty disruptors.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yes, I'm a first-gen kid. Yeah, and and trauma survivors. Um, and so some of those are our first responders. And so I work quite a bit with law enforcement officers, other physicians, but the commonality is that they are likely the first to disrupt both poverty, education, what have you. And that in and of itself comes with some grief and trauma. So that's what I do clinically.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

On the consultant side of my business, I am an income strategist. And so I was trained to broker business-to-business partnerships. And so I help mental health professionals leverage their brilliance beyond direct practice. And so whether that means securing school contracts, working with universities, government entities, corporations, creating courses, you name it, the diversification piece about how we can take what we do in one-on-one and bring it to many to impact more lives while building, you know, financial stability for ourselves. And so that's the thing that I absolutely loathe to do. Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 7:41

Okay. So that was a mouthful. Did y'all catch all that? Okay. So you are income strategists for business owners for private practice and business owners diversifying their income in lots of different ways, which we're going to talk about. But also that you have yourself 150-something clinicians who are in how many sites? 17 sites. You have 17 sites co-located.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yes.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 8:03

Co-located in seven states where you have therapists that are housed inside the offices of a pediatrician, OBTYN, chiropractic, and speech pathology. That's new. You didn't have that last time I talked to you.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yep. We just signed that one.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 8:19

I love that. And you're doing all of that at the same time. And you still do some direct practice yourself? You're still seeing clients?

SPEAKER_00 8:25

I do. One day a week, I see clients. And so that's that part, I think, just keeps me fresh. Yeah, I get that. I do the same thing.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 8:35

Man, wow. Okay. So I don't think we need to say anything else. There you go. Okay, no, we can't do that. Golly, so many questions. Okay. So clearly you have a you have a huge practice set up that is doing lots of creative work in a very different kind of way. That whole idea of co-locating is not something you hear about very often. Tell us a little bit. Do you mind kind of taking this back a little bit and tell us kind of your backstory? Like how the heck did you get here? Why have you always been a thing? You haven't always been a therapist. You have a story before that. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your transition into the clinical world. And then let's talk about how the heck, how you built this thing you've got. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Let's do that. So I always say kicking and screaming. I became a therapist kicking and screaming. Um, and it's interesting because I should have like seen it because both of my parents are in mental health. My dad has always worked for like mental health association in Missouri, but on the administrative side of things. And then my mom was a substance abuse counselor, but she wasn't when I was a kid, right? So because I'm the first in my family to graduate college. And so I graduated before her, but it was always kind of there, right? And big proponents of mental health. But I, you know, when I was in high school, I met this amazing psychologist. And I was like, oh, they had actually never met another, they had never met a black woman doctor ever. Oh, my experience. And I was like, oh, so I was fascinated with her. And you know, I didn't know folks that had like personally that had gone to college, right? And so that was like exposure. And then she was a doctor, and I was absolutely enamored. And I had always had this knack for like helping people, you know. My friends would tell me I have a listening face, and so that was always something that was happening, right? A listening face, that's cute. Right. And I was like, now my expressions are louder than I would like them to be sometimes. But anyway, so I did my undergrad in business and psychology. I had done enough, I'm a data girl, right? So I had done enough research to realize that the bachelor's in psychology would not be sufficient.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 10:37

And then you had an undergrad in business and psychology. Yes, I did a so like a double major. Is that what you did? Okay, got it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

And I realized that my business degree would like provide stability for me while I pursued the doctorate because I knew that at that point I had figured out the yes, that's what I want to do. I thought I was going to do the medical route and then did an externship and realized really quickly that's actually not the route I wanted to go, which led me back to the PhD route. And so I, you know, finished my undergrad. While I'm in undergrad, I am a pharmaceutical sales rep and that full-time job is paying for my undergraduate degree. Wow. And, you know, my main job is to get my, you know, prescriptions into doctors' offices. And so, you know, I don't like driving, but I like people, right? And this is when Zippermax first came to the market, and you know, some other meds that first came to the market. Oh, yeah, this is a really good story.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 11:31

I do want to hear the story. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Um, and so one of the drugs that had just come to the market was Vitagra. And mind you, I'm 18 years old. I am 18 years old, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 11:42

Well, you were a pharmaceutical sales rep at 18.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I was a pharmaceutical sales rep at 18. It started off as an internship and then I did so well that they offered me a position.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 11:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Um, and so I'm 18. I get my first car, like I don't know how to drive. I run over my my boss's mailbox. I think I'm going to get fired, right? So when I say by accident, I absolutely mean that, right? So literally. Functional hot mess. He doesn't fire me, but I have to drive to like hundreds of doctors' offices to, you know, get them to take my prescriptions. And I want to remind you that these are drugs that people don't know yet. We know them now, like ZPAC and Viagra and Norvask and Lipitor, but they were brand new drugs. So I had what you would what you would say at the time were untested products, right? They weren't, they just weren't household names at the time. And so my goal is actually to not have to drive. And so I learned that I can actually. Now where were you?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 12:33

Were you in DC?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I was in Missouri. Oh, I was in Missouri.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 12:36

You're in Missouri. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I had never driven on the highway. I was afraid to drive when it was raining. And snow was definitely out of out of out of bounds, right? And so I'm like, oh, I need to get a promotion to be an institutional hospital rep because then I only have to drive to one location, the hospital, right? She was within walking distances. So I actually didn't want to drive at all. I was planning to walk to work. This is how driving horse I was. But my motivation was to not drive. That piece is important. And so what ends up happening is I go into this, you know, oncologist's office and I'm standing behind the glass screen because they haven't let me back yet. And I'm talking to the front office, you know, office receptionist about Viagra. And he lets me. No, is this a cold call? Is it a cold call?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 13:16

It's a cold call. Complete. So you literally walked in off the street. Hi. I'm the 18-year-old who doesn't want to drive and I want to talk to you about Viagra. What?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

And like she slid, you know, she slid her frosted glass over to look like to talk to me. And I'm five foot two, so I'm barely above this counter anyway, right? And so again, painting the scene, right? So he steps back and he like looks through the window and he's like, What did you say? And I was like, Oh, I have Viagra. And he's like, How old are you? And I don't know, like, I'm not aware enough to know that he probably shouldn't be asking me my age, right? Was this the receptionist that was there? This is now the physician. This is now the doctor that's asking me this. I was talking about it. He heard me say erectile dysfunction. He's like, What did you say? And I was like, Oh, it's me. I have Viagra, right? And so he's like, No, how old are you? And I was like, Oh, I'm 18. And he's like, Does your mom know that you're talking about this? And I was like, Yeah, she does. She's actually really proud of me. Yeah, that's my job. Totally green, right? And I'm just excited that I'm talking to the doctor, right? And he goes, Come back here. And I was like, Okay, like I wanted to get back there anyway. Hello. So I'm talking about it.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 14:23

Because it was incredibly insulting that he would ask you your age, and does your mom know? Like, are you freaking kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

And yes, a hundred percent. And I'm totally green, so none of this is registering that I should be offended, right? Right. I'm happy that the doctor's talking to me. And now he invited me back to the sacred space. If you get them to open that door, you are in the money. And he said, he says, and this was pivotal. He says, if I like get my colleagues to take your prescriptions, because that's what I needed to do, was to get them to take my prescriptions and then give the samples out to their clients, which and then write a prescription for it, right? That's how that piece works. He's like, if I can get my colleagues to like you come once a week, drop your prescriptions off. Will you stop talking about this?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 15:02

Will you stop talking about this?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Stop talking about this. And I was like, Yeah, like yes, I will stop talking about this. Hello. And he's like, Great. And so we negotiate that I would come and bring lunch. This was before HIPAA. You could bring lunch, you could take them to golf, you could do all the things, right? And he got his oncologist friends to come once a week and I would drop my prescriptions off. And so now again, remember, I don't want to drive. And so I was like, Oh, I wonder if the cardiologist would mobilize something like this. And so, yes, I found a cardiologist that had influence and relationships, and I would take them to golf twice a month. I still can't play golf. I would pay for golf and they would write my prescriptions, right? And so what I learned was, and I did that with other specialists, right? So now instead of having to drive to hundreds of doctors' offices five days a week, I got my schedule down to two days because I'm either providing lunch, you learn find one person who can introduce you to everybody else and who can bring the business to you. That's that's absolutely yeah, and so now I, you know, have all my classes on two days, I work two days, I have a free day even. Wow, and I was the youngest institutional hospital rep that they had had ever because of course this strategy led me to get a promotion. And then they're like, How did you do that? And I'm like, but and they're you know, they're asking. I was like, you know, what motivated you? And I was like, I didn't want to drive. And they're like, and so my boss is like, you can't say that in the training. And he's like, What else? And I was like, I really didn't want to drive. Like, I need you to sit and think about what else was motivating to you. And I was like, In terms of why you wanted to be an institutional rep or yes, and what drove me to drive sales and build relationships in that way. And I was like, how about I just tell them the how and we could just like think about the why? Because I didn't want to like lie about that, right? I was like, literally, I didn't want to drive on the highway and all in the car, right? At all. And so I what I did was I said, you know, when you understand your why, you will figure out the how. And that has served me well throughout my career. Yeah. Um, you know, as I pivoted, right? And then building relationships with people is about what they care about. So for the oncologist, it was about reducing for him. I represented his granddaughter, and he just couldn't imagine her having this conversation. And so it wasn't even me, it was what I represented to him. And so for him, his motivation was different than mine. I just want you to write my prescriptions, right? And to take my samples. And he just wanted to reduce the the that trigger for him, right? And I wasn't even aware of that at the time. But what I learned is that you can find what's essential to people and you can meet that need, they will give you all of the time in the world. And that is the same strategy that I've used to, you know, integrate other offices is understanding what actually matters to them and where the pain point is that we're uniquely like capable of resolving, right? And so I okay, let's let's highlight that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 17:51

You learn to understand what their unique pain point was. Say that again, repeat that, because that was important.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

So, what is important to them and what pain point they have that we're uniquely qualified to help solve.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 18:03

We are uniquely qualified to help solve. And you said that when you understand the why, you'll figure out the how.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

That's right.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 18:10

Absolutely. I love that. That's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Okay. And I think that helps us stay anchored with like kind of why we're doing this, and that can help us reorient when we find ourselves feeling burned out. Like it may not mean that we need to leave the field, it may need to change how we're serving in it in a way that actually honors the why, right? Which has to be anchored in what matters to us. And I think they're like, I learned that lesson in that space. I still don't like to drive. So that's okay.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 18:35

I love driving.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

We can hang out. I'll drive. I don't mind. We're happy. That's I'll tell stories and I'll DJ. That's fine. Um and then Nestle recruited me from Pfizer. And so that was, you know, they saw what I did there. And I mind you, at this time, I'm training. And so I'm I'm getting to travel all over the world, not all the world. Training who training sales. Training other reps, other reps. Okay, yes, got it on relationship building and using relationship to drive sales. So all of this comes full circle. And I was like, well, if you understand people and what matters to them and you put them first, the sales will come because people don't like being sold to, they like being served.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 19:14

People don't like being golly, people don't like being sold to, they like being served. Amen, amen, and amen.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah, which uh aligns with my servant leader identity as a clinician and as I lead my team. I serve them first. I don't have to worry about them also taking care of our clients. And so then Nestle recruited me, and my job was to, you know, broker partnerships between, you know, get us more shelf space in places like Walmart, right? That was my, you know, kind of main client, my biggest client.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 19:39

Your job was getting chocolate on the shelves. That's what you did.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Dog food. Dog food. Binifold. Beniful was a premium line that was just coming out. So it was again first to market. It was unheard of. Could we serve a premium client, you know, that had a shorter shelf life, higher price, right? And so part of that was again understanding that we're talking to a different audience. We're not talking to people that treat their, you know, their their cat and their dog as pets. We're talking to people who treat them as family because they're willing to pay for the premium product. And so, again, understanding who we serve allows us to tailor the services to them, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 20:12

Yes. This is important, y'all. Stay tuned into this because as she tells her story, you're gonna see how this comes back to serve her as a clinician and as a practice worker because it's so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

So at this point at Nestle, Nestle's now paying for my master's in counseling. I have a dual master's in counseling in statistics. And so research is counseling and statistics. Counseling and statistics. And so again, I'm a dad aggressor.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 20:34

That makes my head hurt. That makes my head hurt. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Jeez. Um, but also the piece around that, like I'm collecting degrees, but I don't realize at this time that it's a trauma response, right? That also is important because again, where my origin story started, you know, I had a parent incarcerated until I was eight. I knew what it meant to have unmet needs and the level of instability that that created. I was unwilling to allow that to be the next part of my journey because I inherited that coming into the world. And so I knew very early on that education was a gateway to financial stability. And so this is why the business degree remained so critical and relevant. And so then I end up stacking degrees in other areas. Well, I finished my master's degree and then I enroll in law school. And this is the running piece, is because I didn't realize at that stage of my my life and my career that the reason that direct practice full-time felt really difficult for me was because I had never named the childhood trauma in grief. And so I couldn't in a sustainable way hold space for the people that I was working with, right? And so I was doing work that No, wait a minute.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 21:41

I lost you somewhere in there. Hold on, I lost you. So you were a sales rep with Nestle. And now you're training sales reps. And you were doing it as yourself, right? And then you went to you made a decision to go to law school. I got I got the that point about you were stacking degrees. Yeah. That's really Profound right there, and that that was a trauma response. It absolutely was. Super important. But so somewhere in there, you decide to get out of sales and into law school.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Right. So you must I'm still full-time employed at Nestle. So I'm still working my corporate job. And I'm going to, I did my master's degree part-time while still working in corporate. And then I enrolled in law school part-time, still working in corporate.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 22:22

Why? Why did you do that? Like where were you going or what was what was the shift?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

So I thought that I knew I needed the corporate job because it provided stability. And at this point, I have a at this point, I have a two-year-old. And so stability is really important to me, right? Like again, for myself and also now for her. I have excellent benefits. And everything that I know about the mental health field means that if I transition there, I'm going to take a significant pay cut, right? Had something happen that made you want to transition to mental health? I knew that the business piece was the thing that I was good at, but it wasn't the thing I was passionate about. So even when I was in pharmaceutical sales, yes, like cardiovascular health and cholesterol was helping my grandparents. Like I got them on better medication, but the sales aspect of it was very data and money driven. It wasn't improving life like driven. That's just not the culture that was happening. And that was always incongruent. And so it felt really disconcerting that I kept being praised for how much revenue I was bringing in because it never aligned with the why I was doing it. Right. And so being asked not to tell that part of the story also was not, it was a disconnect for me. And I was like, I'm actually not interested in just making you a whole heck of a lot of money because I can't see the impact that it's having on the people that I actually care about. Right. And I actually really care about people. And so that part just kept gnawing at me. And I was, and it was tough because I was experiencing really like lots of career success. I was, I got promoted at Nestle. I got recruited from Pfizer of all places, right? So you're an overachiever.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 23:52

You're clearly an overachiever. Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Absolutely.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 23:54

But it wasn't satisfying your soul.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

It was not satisfying. It was not.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 23:59

Right. Yeah. So we want to talk about an ideal practice. That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Absolutely. And now that I have my daughter, the amount of time that I'm now spending away from her feels that much like less.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Right. Of a it, like the trade-off doesn't make sense. When I was a single person by myself, it was like, whatever, I'll work 40 hours a week, go to school for another 10 hours a week, right? Not have much of a liar.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 24:21

So you shifted to law school at that point because you wanted to do something that meant more. You were ready to do something that had deeper meaning. And because of your own family history or your background, whatever that story is, you were like, This is not helping people the way I want to help. I mean it's great. The success is great, but it is empty success. This is not what I want. All right, great. Absolutely. So you went to law school.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

I go to law school. And academically, I'm doing well. I'm with the two-year-old. Amazing support system that allows me to do all of these sleek, you know, things. It certainly wouldn't have been possible without them. And I am academically thriving and morally and ethically suffering. Oh, because the law is not like it doesn't take context. Like how they got there into consideration very rarely, it interprets the law, which is not always designed to recognize like how they got here as a result of is as a result of trauma, right? As a result of unmet economic needs. And my therapist heart is is bleeding here, right? Yes. And so it's my contracts law professor, and I'm in her office and I'm doing the office hours and the consultation, and we have a great relationship.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 25:25

And she says, Contracts law professor.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah, she was phenomenal, right? It was again, I'm doing I do I'm doing fine academically. I have a 4.0, great scholarship, but academic academia had always been my safe place anyway. Yes. But I'm suffering, right? And and I don't, I don't feel like I fit. I'm it's it's taking me longer to write my papers because I have to scrub all of the humanity out of them to meet the requirements of the assignment. And so this is what I'm struggling with. And we're talking through office hours. Eventually I write the paper, but it's taking so much out of me, right? And so she encouraged me to take. By this time I've moved to DC and I'm at George George Washington for thinking I'm gonna finish my law degree. And she encourages me to take my electives. She's like, you don't have to take your electives in these things you think you're gonna take them in, like international law and trademark, right? You can actually take your electives over like in grief. And so I did. And so yeah, as you can. I love that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 26:24

So you were you were in law, but you took electives in the psychology side of things, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

I did.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 26:29

I did the same thing. I started off as a broadcasting major, believe it or not. And I and I had to take, and I was taking like advertising classes and putting which were putting me to sleep, and then I took psych electives just for the fun of it and completely fell in love. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

It absolutely is. So you took grief, you took classes in grief, and I took a course in intro to grief and loss. And before the class started, I wrote my professor an email trying to negotiate to not have to go to like they had an individual counseling and journal requirement, like three sessions of counseling and then journal. And I wrote him a you know persuasive email from my experience in law school, trying to justify why like I actually didn't need to take like do that component. I don't have to do that counseling part. Like, that's not that's not really relevant, it's not why I'm here. Like, I'm here because my professor recommended it. He goes, Oh, you're my student from the law school, and I'm like, Yes, it's me. And he's like, excellent, I look forward to reading your journal. Did not go as planned. I love it, I love it. And it was in that class that I realized that in therapy, really for the first time, where and I found a grief therapist. And because I'm like, I'll just I'm just gonna do the requirements. I don't have any grief, right? Like what challenging was the norm, totally fine. Um, was not fine. It's not fine. Isn't it funny?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 27:52

Isn't it funny how when there's a path you're supposed to go on, the universe keeps bringing you back to it over and over and over and over again? All like one way or another, you're gonna do this work. You're gonna do this work. When you're not ready, if you're not ready, you're not ready. That's fine. But when you're ready, yeah, you're gonna be there. I love, I really love that, Ageta. I think this is I totally want to honor and respect for just a moment what you have said because you're saying it quickly. I told you so. Y'all, I have to, audience, you my friends who are listening, I have to tell you, I told her before we get online, before we got on this call, I said, you talk fast and I hear slow. So we have to stop. But I I wanna I just want to pause for just a second and honor and respect the drive that you had, the courage that you had, the sheer willingness to persevere no matter what, and and and a and the sense of excellence that permeated everything that you did. I totally understand when you I've not heard anyone say they were stacking degrees before, but I get that. I get that, honey. But for you to see now what that was about, you were basically running and learning. You were running and learning at the same time. And I always say it's all grist for the mill, which is my southern thing, but it's like everything that we do in our life, everything we try, everything that works or doesn't work, every experience comes into it, it informs our our skills as a clinician, our skills as a practice owner. It all adds to the mix, it's all valuable. But I just really want to praise and recognize I just it just feels really important to me to honor that, okay? Because that's a lot that you were pushing through. So, so here you are find yourself in a grief class and you're just taking for the heck of it. And the guy goes, Yeah, let's do a little counseling. No, I don't need that. I'm y'all, yeah. Totally resistant. Tar baby, don't throw me in that there, Briar Patch. That's so funny. No one's gonna get that reference. Y'all are not gonna get that reference. Never mind. All right, so let's continue. So, where so you're taking a grief class? You're gonna do the journal because you're a good girl, you're a good student, you do what you're supposed to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

I was like, fine, right? I'll just do this. Fine. And then I get into grief therapy, and and and then we learn because no one had died, right? And that's what I knew about grief was death. And this class opened my eyes, therapy opened my eyes. That I had cumulative losses that had never been named, never been worked with. And it's the reason that I would busy my way through the moments that actually I needed to pause and actually acknowledge and name and feel, right? And I learned that, you know, for me, that that the absence of pain is not joy. And that's what I thought. Like, I'm not in any pain, so I must be happy. And I wasn't, I was numb and I was busy and I kept moving forward because there was nothing. If I stopped moving, there was such so much fear about that I would go back where I came from. And that's not like my family of origin is fine, but I grew up in one of the worst neighborhoods in you know, in the city, it's not where you want it to be, right? And so I was so afraid of, and I remember saying to the therapist when she asked me, like, what has like motivated me all this time? And I remember telling my high school counselor, I just don't want to die here because so many of my friends died before they graduated high school because that's what happened in my neighborhood. They either died or they went to jail, and I didn't want that. Like, so I began stacking the deck in my favor because I came in with statistics that said what I could do and what I could be. And I just knew that I didn't want that for my life.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 31:30

I had seen that bound and determined you were not going to be the story that somebody else was telling. And having met that black doctor in high school, which sort of started you to think that there was something, something new that was possible for you.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, she represented proof for me that that like I didn't know whether or not she had a background similar to mine, but I knew she looked like me and that if she could do it, that it was possible, it was doable, that I just needed to figure out how to do that, right? And so the business degree came into play because I didn't have a family that could fund me while I was, you know, studying full-time as a student. I knew that wasn't my that wasn't my kind of story, and so I knew the business degree could sustain me while I I navigated those other things, and that's why I stayed in the business realm for so long. One, I was good at it, I could, you know, do it in my sleep. It was very for me, although I was high achieving, it still was not the same effort. It paid the bills. Absolutely. Yeah, counseling required a different part of me that the business sector never required. Like I could not be well mentally and still like fill a pallet, you know what I mean? And and and look at a strategy. That's not the same when you're doing therapy, like it requires your presence and your authenticity and your ability to hold space for someone else. And I had never been on the receiving end of that, so I certainly couldn't provide it. And so that class forced me to sit with myself in a way that I didn't know I had never been fully present for.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 32:53

And so guys, this is I really want to. This is so this is so rich because this is something we talk about strategy a lot here, but this is the this is the soul of uh not not, I mean of running a practice for sure. Because I core, I think the thing same thing applies there. But as a healer, yes, if you are not doing your own inner work, you're not gonna be very good at what you do. You're you will miss important things in your clients. You will you will miss or avoid or just not even see things because you don't see them in yourself. So you I I totally support that. You have to do your own work, and so here you are. By golly, here you are.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Okay, and so I never went back to law school. So of course I, you know, I withdrew and and eventually gave myself permission to finally, you know, fully withdraw and not keep delaying reenrollment. And I finished the PhD program, and that was really pivotal.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 33:41

So you switched from law to a PhD in psych. Is that what you did?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yes, I did the counseling education program got it at George Washington. And that was like it was a great program. I came in licensed and knew exactly what population I wanted to work with, and and everything after I just made that commitment and decision just really just moved pretty fluidly. And so now I know, like I'm now trusting myself that one, this is this is the thing that I was called to do. Like I didn't navigate all these things to not be able to use it purposefully. Yeah, and I'm still trying to figure out how do I leave corporate the corporate income because that has been like that's what my lifestyle is based upon. Um, you know, my school's tuition, all the things, right? And so I needed to figure out how to do that. And so, you know, I learned about private practice and I was like, oh, can navigate that. And so what do you do? I'm a god girl, so I've always been taught to seek wise counsel. So I went and I spoke with an advisor who I knew had a private practice, but was a full-time faculty member as well. And I was like, okay, great. He'll get that I need, like, likely will need to keep one of this corporate job while I build my practice part-time because that's essentially what he's doing. And he told me something that in the moment was very discouraging in for a moment, right? And he said, Well, most private practices aren't profitable for at least the first three years. And so you're gonna need, like, this program has prepped you to be a professor. And so, like, do the thing we've prepared you to do. And in the moment, in his office, I'm sitting there and I'm like, I don't have three years. I have a five-year-old now, I don't have three years, right? I've spent four and a half years in a doc program that was accelerated for me because I feel like I'm running out of time. Now I feel like I'm starting over from scratch. I later was able to realize that I wasn't starting over from scratch. I was starting over with experience, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 35:24

Yes. Right? I wasn't starting over from scratch, I was starting over with experience. I love that. Yes, that's so true. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

I was thinking that all the time I was in corporate and dabbling in law school, I was off track. All of those things came back to play and were transferable and really have shaped the way that I've been able to build and grow my practice, but also the things I've done beyond direct practice. And so I made a decision then. I was like, you know, I don't have three years, and this either has to work or it has to work. So I'm just gonna build my business as if it works. And so that's what I did. And I ended up growing, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 35:58

So, did he was that that guy that you went and talked to, was he discouraging you from doing private practice at all? Or was he saying it's not, or was he saying you can do it, but it's gonna take a while. You got to keep your job. What was his well?

SPEAKER_00 36:09

He was absolutely discouraging me from private practice. The other statement that he said was was that, you know, as a and he was treating me as if I was like a lot of my colleagues had not been in the field, right? So they had gone from their master's program right into their doc program. Like I had a full-time job in corporate, but I also was working part-time in mental health. I was fully licensed by the time I got to the doc program. And so all of that really didn't mean much because he said you actually should go work for someone else's private practice before you go and start your own. And I was like, you're discounting totally the again, the experience that I'm bringing, that I already understand business, right? I just have never done business for myself. But I've always been a little delusional about, you know, what's possible for myself. Like if someone tells me no, I make two, like I have two, one of two things that I immediately think. Either you don't understand what I said or you're not the right person. But it never occurs to me that I can't do it. I love that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 37:02

Well, you said a minute ago, you said either my practice had to work or it had to work.

unknown 37:06

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

And so what do you how would you build your business if you didn't calculate, yeah, like do this fear-based thing, right? And what I knew was I could trust myself because I had been through all of these things that I was committed to the thing that I wanted and that I that I believe could provide the stability and the flexibility that I wanted because I had I was feeling the weight of the 16-hour clinical days that I was missing from my daughter, right? So again, now my why is I want my freedom of time back. I know I want to exit corporate America and I don't want to burn myself out. I was willing to work at that pace so that I didn't have to continue working at that pace. And I felt very passionately that it was time for me to pivot. So I did take part of his advice, is I did go and secure a full-time faculty position actually before I finished my doctorate. And I opened my private practice at the same time. Seven months in, I had grown that practice into a group. We were profitable, we were sustainable. Seven months into you grow. Seven months in. We were a group.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 38:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

With a lot of things I didn't know. My employee manual was seven pages.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 38:12

You had an employee manual?

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Seven pages. That was it.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 38:17

So they were employees, they were W-2s. You were hiring W2s in the beginning. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Yes. I initially hired them as ICs, but then you know, a few months in when I I see an independent contractor, yes. Yeah, yes, sorry about that. I realized within in seven months that they actually couldn't be ICs, that they needed to be W-2s. And so I was like, Oh, I need an employee manual. I know that much. And so I got seven pages, right? Which coincidentally was the paper I had to write in employment law class. Perfect. Again, full circle. I was like, I got this piece. Love it, was nowhere near sufficient. And so, you know, for me, the lesson in that was start where you are and commit to continue to grow. And so I did. Like now it's like 200 pages of stock, right? That I've learned over the past 11 years. But that same kind of relationship building piece and honoring people and being connected to the why is how we even integrate it with, you know, pediatrician practices, is that we saw a significant gap between when they would identify that there was a need for a client to see mental health care and when the client actually contacted us, they would wait until they were in crisis. When the pediatrician often like recognized or sometimes missed them when it could have been in a different state. And so we kind of piloted, like we had a really good relationship with the clinician as a result of me kind of stopping by her office and doing the thing. No, I don't.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 39:37

Okay, so wait, slow this one down. You had you had a doctor in your town, right? Local, that was referring people to your group counseling practice.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Yes.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 39:45

Right. And there was a delay. The doctors would say you need to go get counseling, and they wouldn't come until they got into crisis. And somewhere along the way, you recognized that this was a pattern. Yes, and you wanted to figure out a way to get those. This was kids, this was adolescents.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yes, these were all kids.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 40:00

Okay. And you were like, they need the help, but they're not coming for the help. How can we get that to them faster? So did was this your pediatrician that your daughter went to by any chance? No.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

No, it wasn't.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 40:11

Okay. So is this somebody who knew you, just knew your town or knew your business? Or okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

And some of that was because when I started my practice, I didn't have a website. And again, I'm a Midwest girl. I mentioned that earlier and I told you it would come back because we know all of our neighbors. And so I really walked around and met and introduced myself. I brought my little fruit baskets and my muffins and I introduced myself because I didn't have a website. And I also wanted to know who was in my neighborhood, right? Serving the community. And I wanted everyone to know that I was there if I could add value. And so I literally was the welcoming committee in the neighborhood.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 40:45

So that's I love this. Okay. This is a strategy people can use. So so you were, and this goes back to your days selling Viagra. So you were doing like cold calls. Would you walk into a doctor's office, a pediatrician's office with some kind of a gift, something tangible, a backslid of fruit? Yeah, you're this is totally your sales rep days. And you would say, Hi, my name is so-and-so. I run a counseling practice in town. I just kind of wanted to meet you guys. And you would like to talk to the front desk and what give them the some fruit and some business cards.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Absolutely.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 41:16

And they were geographically close to your practice. So they were where your referrals would be coming from. And y'all, I want, I want you, as y'all are listening to Ageta talk about this. I coach a lot of people about how to talk to doctors. And it's very, it's intimidating. It's intimidating because they're busy people. They're they are back in the back somewhere, and most of them don't want to talk to us. What she I want y'all to notice, all she's doing is sort of is starting a relationship. And yeah, it might feel a little weird, but it does work. I actually did this with a speech pathologist that I coached who we we talked, we came up with a whole strategy about how she could get past that door. And it was very, very, very carefully crafted. But it was it was exactly like this. So they're like, Who are you? What do you do? Okay. Yeah. And in my experience, primary care doctors want to refer people for counseling, but they have no idea where to send them and they're too busy to go find out. So you're just they probably didn't care who you were. You had the word therapy attached to your name, and they're like, Fine, give me your cards. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Absolutely, absolutely. And I also would look up the doctors, right? The practice. And and so I could walk in and say, like, you know, I did a little bit of research on you, like I wouldn't say that, right? But I'd say, I, you know, I see that you work with this population. I do too, right? And so I just want to be a resource for you all. Yeah. And and so one of the things that I started doing, particularly with this pediatrician, that I noticed was sending, like, was sending referrals and and we were seeing the gap, is I asked and I said, We see a lot of, you know, we see a lot of PD, you know, adolescents and pediatric population. And I'm wondering if you're noticing that they're coming in complaining about stomach issues or chest issues, and then you can't find anything biologically or physically wrong. Because I'm noticing we're seeing that a lot, and it ends up being like anxiety. Are you seeing that? And she was like, Oh my God, yes. And we end up like to soothe the parent and the kid, we're giving them, you know, whatever the stomach medication is. I forgot what she told me, right? And I was like, Do you would it be helpful if we came in and just had like a lunch bunch with your team and talked about how to recognize psychosomatic complaints in the adolescent population?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 43:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Again, I'm adding value. Yeah, right. I'm adding value. I'm I'll bring lunch, no problem. And sometimes they like we'll bring lunch. You you just come, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 43:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

And it was so empowering. And of course, now they know me and my style. And now I'm top of mind when they have a kid. Absolutely. And now they're doing consult and saying, Hey Doc, can you like can you weigh in on this? Would you, you know, can we ask you a question? And so now they asked.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 43:50

Now you really are a resource. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

I mean, really interested resource. And so I still don't have a website, but I don't need one because I have in my network. Of within four block rock walking distance in either direction, my community knows me and they know that I'm available to assist them. And so when I call and say, Hey, do you know anyone? Right? I have a new clinician. Let me introduce them. This is who they serve. If you have anyone that we can help, send them our way. And they know we're known for providing excellent care. So you know it's a good referral, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 44:22

And so Jenna, there was a time, there was a time when I worked with adolescents and I was the go-to person for teens in my town. And the local juvenile court judge sent practically every kid that went through his court to me. All I mean, like all of them. At no point did it occur to me to go offer to do a training of some sort or to go to the court and do something, or much less create some kind of a contractual thing. I this is brilliant because you are now helping the kids, you're helping the families, but you're helping the helpers do a better job as well. And you're building a reputation for your practice as one who serves. People don't want to be sold to, they want to be served. Absolutely. Boom.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Got it. Okay. Um, and then we'd ask a critical question of you know, our providers that already trusted us. Do you know any other practices you think that could benefit from the type of service or workshop that we provided to you? Because now they'll introduce us to their friends. Do you know anyone else? Do you know anyone else that could benefit from this? And so I just committed to doing one of those workshops a month. I could dedicate an hour, you know, either I come in person or we do it virtually, whichever works for you, but we could the same workshop over and over and over again. The same workshop. I would tailor it like I did it in an urgent care setting because I went in an asthma attack. And I, you know, of course, now that I can breathe, I'm gonna ask you questions, right? You're right here. And I said, Do you see like people with suicidal ideation or anxiety in urgent care? And he's like, No, we don't. I'm like, uh-huh so what that tells me is you don't know what you don't know it when you see. You don't recognize it. And so I asked him, I was like, Do you guys ever have any trainings or you know, PDs that come in to talk about mental health? Of course, the answer was no. I figured that out by the intake paperwork, right? I was like, Oh, I would love to, like, we'd be happy to come in and we live here on the corner, like we're neighbors, right? And so we got into the urgent care, right? Because I had an asthma attack, right? Which is not the way. I was like, this copay is gonna pay for itself one way or another, friends.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 46:09

I love it. I love it. Talk about turning a problem into an opportunity. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Yes, right. And so, you know, we just, you know, continued that strategy and really looked at what other disciplines are our clients that are experiencing grief and trauma, because that's our area of specialization. Yeah, who else is likely serving them? Right. And so that's how we diversified, right? So we the chiropractor, again, was another good referral source, was working with a lot of folks that had, you know, had car accidents and other, you know, injuries. And there's grief and trauma, you know, that's wrapped up into there. And so that became, you know, another space. And so we just began asking the question like, we love that you refer to us, but what how would it improve your patient care if they could have a mental health assessment on site? Like we can come into your office and just piloted. And so we did that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 46:55

Bring it to you. We'll bring it to you.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

We'll bring it to you. Yes. And so that really kicked things off. And then, like, now we have offices that approach us. Whereas before I was doing all the legwork and getting into the offices and pitching them. And now we've built a reputation that we have four partners that are looking to bring us in for us to staff. And so that's actually how we grew the business. I never intended to have 150 plus clinicians, um, but this thing just continues to expand. And now I have clinicians that, you know, one that we just hired last week has a special specialization in perenatal care. That's not my jam, but can we staff, you know, an OBG right office? Absolutely. And is there burden?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 47:33

So, and so you're not having to buy buildings and create an office somewhere, you're just placing people in offices that exist. And then do their patients pay you or does the office pay you? Like, how does the pavement work for that?

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Yeah. So some of the offices are concierge, and so it's only private pay. Either way, the pay the we're paid directly from the client. From the client, not from the doctor's office. Okay. Okay. Um, there are some situations in which, like when we do the interdisciplinary consultation, previously, prior to January 1, we weren't able to bill for those. And so we do have agreements where the MD bills or the prescriber bills for that, and then they pay us because Medicare or Medicaid only pays one person. They've always paid MDs. Now, as of January 1, we can bill for those consultations when we couldn't before. And so that's the only place in which they pay us directly. Otherwise, we're just collecting the payment directly from the client. But the beautiful thing in the majority of these offices, they're not charging us overhead. And I negotiated that because, you know, one of the things that happens is when we have an appointment schedule with the client, 99% of the time we're running on time. So if they're behind and they're usually behind, they actually can now bring a client right into a treatment room because we're available, right? Yeah. And we can keep that it improved their patient care, it can improve their patient experiences. And we can roll in right either before or after the nurse that comes to check vitals. We can do a mental, a quick mental health assessment. And if they need additional services, we either can refer them to our main office or if we're in a location where we have space, we can actually just schedule them right then and there for their actual session, right? And so that improved the efficiency of their office. We're 100% paper-free. Like it really just elevated their practice. And so we can negotiate to not, and we really don't, we need an iPad, we don't take up a whole lot of space. Yeah. And so we really negotiated. I was like, okay, if we don't save you money or make you money in six months, sure, you can charge us. And we've not had anyone that has come back and said we actually need to bill you because it's not working in our favor.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 49:31

And so that's funny. It didn't even occur to me that they would charge you because I'm thinking you're doing them a service. Why would they charge you? But I can see that like it is, it also helps you. You're getting business out of this. So I can see how they might think of it as subletting an office or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

For sure. And a lot had that mindset when we initially started this because now, like co-located integration is becoming, you know, more common, but we were one of the only folks doing it, you know, seven years ago. Like it just wasn't it wasn't as common as it is, it's becoming to be. And so we were kind of first to the market in our area. And so we really were piloting a lot of things, seeing what worked, what didn't work, and then dialed in the disciplines that it really made sense to partner with. Yeah. And so that those were different types of contracts. So I didn't have to figure out we only have one office space with six suites. Like that's it. That that's it.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 50:17

One physical location, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:18

One physical location. I don't have to manage all of those other, you know, other locations because they have administrative staff and everything for us is streamlined. And so that really allowed us to be efficient and optimized. That's impressive. Yeah. So that's been that's been really awesome to kind of just be a part of.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 50:34

Wow. So that that whole that whole piece there about just how to get into a doctor's office is incredibly valuable. And if nobody hears anything else out of this episode, that alone I'm hoping is gonna be like sparking some ideas among people. Um, because I really do think that this is a this is money on the table because I've I've experienced this myself where doctor I where I've talked to clinicians or MDs who are like, I'd love to send people. I don't know who the good people are. And part of actually what worked for my group practice, actually, when I ran, I I don't have it anymore. I uh but when I I I sold it in the pandemic, but I had a group practice for 25 give or take years, and we had such a reputation as the go-to place in our town. Like doctors would tell their patients, I don't care who you see, just see somebody at this place. And so that our name meant something, our brand meant something, which was huge to me when I started hearing that. Because clients would say, My doctor said it didn't care, they didn't care who I saw, just as long as I came here. So, what we started doing was making generic business cards that didn't have anybody's name on it, just our practice name, because doctor we did two things. We did that because doctors wanted to have that in their office. So they could just hand it to somebody, just call this place, they'll help you. And then the other thing that we did that I put together as a resource for doctors, I put together, I always had like 10 or 12 providers in my in my office, and they all did different things. They worked different hours, they had different all kinds of things. I put together a simple one pager that explained who was there, when they were available, what their specialty was. And everybody took different some were self-pay, some took insurance. They were all they did it their own way. And because the doctors would be like, I do want to who do who sees kids at your practice? So I created this one P one pager, folded it up, stuck it in a Christmas card with a picture of all of us, and sent that to every medical practice in town. And I only meant that for the doctors to pull up and look at and go go see this one if they didn't want to and if they needed something specific. They started making copies of that and giving it to patients.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Oh, I love that.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 52:49

I didn't mean it for that, like I hadn't designed it with that in mind. And I at first I was a little bit mortified because it was a very, you know, it was just the facts. But I learned from that that they will refer, they just don't know who to refer. So make it easy for them to refer. Absolutely. And that's what you're doing. You're doing that on a on a big scale, and you're doing it so much further. You're going, you're taking it to them. I just listen, but you don't just do doctors, you also do government contracts and corporate contracts. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Yeah, and again, all the skills are transferable because what what we often do with corporations and even you know, government contracts. I'll be at a university in Chicago next week on Monday, talking uh really about burnout prevention and intervention in the workplace, right? And then I'll be, you know, training federal law enforcement officers on Wednesday and Thursday of next week, mental health first aid. And, you know, one of the things that's really important is be able to highlight the pain point they know that they have that's also a know that they have, yeah. That they know they have, and that's also a priority. And so I liken this to like our when we answer the phone and we do a quick consultation with someone, I might hear that there's some unresolved childhood trauma, but they're coming in and the thing that brought them in was the thing that happened at work. And if I don't honor the thing that brought them in, and I'm like, but you know you need to do this work, I lose them. It's dishonoring. And the same is true if I address the problem the client has, it will create room, trust in the relationship. So I might be able to introduce this other thing that I think is contributing to what the current trigger is. And the same is true when you're wanting to partner with, you know, organizations, corporations, government entities is what's the problem that is a priority? Because it may be a problem that it's a known problem, but it's not something they're willing to do something about. They won't pay you to do. Yeah, they don't care what the solution is because it's a problem that they have tolerance around or that's not a priority, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 54:43

It's not they're not miserable enough yet.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Yeah, they're not miserable enough. Um, and so I made a post on LinkedIn like earlier in January that talked about like, here are five things you need to consider or that you should think about to determine whether or not your team is burnt out. So you can't ask people that are burnt out and disengaged to be creative and do more without honoring where they currently are. And I did that, and then I I think I had a post on like, you know, how to know if you have a toxic workplace, right? And so those two, you know, this representative VP from the university was like, I actually think you're talking about my team that I just inherited.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 55:16

I'm brand new and I'm worried about these newsletter on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

And most people aren't leveraging LinkedIn, so it's not as saturated as many other platforms.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 55:26

That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

It absolutely, right? And then thinking about it, like your decision makers from academia, from corporate America, from government entities, they're on LinkedIn. They may be on Facebook and Instagram, but they're on LinkedIn looking to build professional relationships. Yeah, and so where's your audience? And so for me, I know that that's where they are. And so I have different conversations with them about what's happening in the workplace environment. And so we're talking really about the burnout prevention and intervention, but that's what I'm talking to their employees about in therapy, right? What's showing up for them, how that's impacting their productivity, how it's impacting their quality of life, whether or not they stay at a job, when they feel dishonored, all the things. And now I get to go into corporations and help them understand how policies, procedures, productivity impact the mental health and wellness of their team and really what's at risk if they don't address those things, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 56:15

Why they should care. Why they should care.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Why they should care, right? And it's important to understand what's motivating them because what's motivating me and what's motivating their employees isn't the reason decision makers bring us in. And so we have to be able to speak their language and be able to pivot. What are we doing one-on-one and how that said applied to many? That's the thing that I think sometimes we struggle with, is not thinking our skills is transferable, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 56:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a there's a saying, you know, sell them what they want and then give them what they need. Absolutely. Right. So that's what you're talking about here. I it's funny. I was just coaching this morning with someone where I was I was saying there's a lot of things you can bring to the table, but they don't know that and they don't want that. You have to start with what they're asking for. So what are they asking for? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Absolutely.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 57:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

I know that our federal law enforcement officers likely need a training on vicarious trauma.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 57:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

What they're willing to pay for is mental health first aid because they want to be able to recognize mental health distress when they're navigating and working with the general public. But what I know will happen when I deliver this training is that they will recognize and see themselves and their own experience. But I also know that there's incredible risk of them saying, Oh, I also might have PA, you know, PTSD, or I also might also be experienced in this because they have a federal clearance and we still have a lot of work to do in normalizing mental health in their profession. So I know the thing that will get me in the room to at least create the conversation is to talk about interacting with the general public. I'm aware of that. And I have to be willing to pivot from my objective to identify what's the barrier in them having this conversation. If I make it about them, I'm not getting in.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 57:50

But if I make it, so you start off by helping them do their job better and safer and then and along the way help them see themselves. Now, when you do that, so you're speaking to like conferences or police departments or whoever brings you in. Are you getting paid for those speaking engagements?

SPEAKER_00 58:06

You are absolutely, absolutely. Remember, I do free on purpose, but not because I'm unwilling and I'm scared to ask to be paid, right? And so if it's if it's in alignment, totally. But this is also my bread and butter, you know, it's an eight-hour training. That's a big one. So we actually secured a grant. I wrote a grant that was, you know, publicly available. So SAMHSA Department of Health and Human Services, often foundations will have grants, and this particular one was earmarked for first responders. Well, law enforcement officers are first responders. I happen to have built a relationship with our federal law enforcement officers. This particular unit is our health care fraud unit, which is a division under the FBI. And so that's who I'll be training next week. I've done California.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 58:51

So you got a grant to pay you to go and do this training. So does the grant come to your company, or is the grant, did you get the grant for them to hire you?

SPEAKER_00 59:00

So we've done it multiple ways. And so this particular grant, my company was eligible for. When we first trained law enforcement officers, it required that it was a 501c3, which I had established. And so it just needed a community partner, which happened to be the government agency. Even in that situation, it came directly to the 501c3, which then subcontracted my practice, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 59:24

So you have your business entity.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 59:27

It's an L do you have like an LLC or an escort? Okay. So you have your business entity, and then you also create a nonprofit.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Yes.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 59:34

501c3 is a nonprofit, like an arm of your business. So the nonprofit gets the grants, yes, which then pays the business for you to go provide this training.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Yes.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 59:44

Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

I also did that so that I could subcontract, I could hire my clinicians, and those clinicians that work fully for the nonprofit could get student loan forgiveness, right? Because private practice doesn't qualify. And so that was another motivation for me. And somewhere along the lines. Yeah, that was a whole nother topic right there. A whole nother management, right? Um, but yeah, so we've secured contracts where, like, we've worked with schools where we weren't eligible, even the 501c3. It had to be a school entity that held the contract. We would write the contract, partner with them, and write ourselves in as a service provider. And so the money would go to the school and then they would pay us. And so there's so many ways you can navigate that. And I'll tell you that our first entry point into this was actually subcontracting. So somebody else like secured the contract and we delivered like parent skills training. And that was really a saving grace because I didn't know anything about I knew grant research grant management from a research perspective, but I didn't know anything about it from a management uh reporting, you know, balancing funds, you know, all of those. There's a lot to it. There's a lot to it, there's a whole lot, right? Like we hired that out, but in the beginning, I didn't even know who to hire. I didn't know what job description to say I needed because I didn't know who did that. And so for me, it was about subcontracting and staying in my zone of genius, which was delivering the parent skills training, right? And learning from someone that had done it and that was they had a vested interest in training someone else. And so I just had to make myself available to be mentored in that regard, right? Um, and I paid for that, you know, for them to share their knowledge and they they wanted to look for somebody that could take this grant over because they wanted to retire. And so it really was because I was so visible in the community, I met them at a networking event and they're like, like, you're her. And I'm like, You're the one. I don't know if I'm the one, but I'm me and I have a unique name, so I can't act up, right? She's like, No, it's you. And I was like, Yes, it's me. Um, and then we finally like actually talked details. I was like, Oh, yeah, that is me, right?

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:01:36

Yeah, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

And that is how you know I got started.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:01:39

And so somebody else already had a grant to provide parenting services and and they wanted out, and you said I can take that on for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

So sort of the larger contract was they were providing supervised visitation for the state, and all of these individuals were mandated to one, provide to provide, like receive it at an approved facility. Yeah, and the state wanted them to also, while they were there, provide this mandatory parent skills training, and they had the facility, but they had no one that could provide the parent skills training. And we were already on the court's list. Yeah, I'm also a certified mediator. So we were on the court's list to do those things. We just didn't have like I had a three-office suite, like I didn't have the capacity or the space to do it. And they didn't have anybody that could do it, they had the space. And so she's like, No, I've heard about you, like you know, family law attorney or someone had mentioned you should talk to Dr. Robinson because they had the space, didn't have the skill. I had the skill, didn't have the space. And so we couldn't meet a need that the other person had. And then eventually the state was in the process of building their own secure facility for supervised visitation, but they still wanted someone to come and do the parent skills. So that was like our first entry point into contracting. And what it's been eight years, we still hold the primary contract for the training. I no longer have to worry about the space because the state now has its own facility, and we were able to carry that work that she had started forward and someone that she felt like she could trust.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:03:01

This is a thing that this goes through everything you do, everything you do. It's been about building a reputation, building rec relationships, but also leveraging a single point of contact that turns into lots of business and providing services on site for someone else, not having to house it in your own place. So you don't have the overhead. So it's your your profit margins are going to be higher. And and your impact is greater. It's it's a brilliant way of thinking. And clearly your your business background helped you a lot. You know, the language, I can tell it even as you talk, the way you speak, is not typical for therapists, but it is it's totally learnable and and and it's it works. It really works. So tell us I I am I am amazed and so grateful to to have met you and to learn about this really, really cool way of running a practice. It's so much more than, quote, a practice in a way. Yeah. I mean there was a time actually when I had my when my group practice was at its height when we were so well thought of. I kept thinking, how can I spread this out? How can I and I briefly thought about building satellite offices into other communities, but I didn't have the systems in place to do that. And I was exhausted because I was kind of doing all the things. And when I hear conversations like this, I think, man, that was a missed opportunity. I just didn't know how to do it. I love that you're here to share this with my audience for real. Not everybody, I I I said this the other day in a in a different conversation. I said, not everybody wants to build an empire, you know, not everybody wants to do this kind of thing. But even if you don't want 150 clinicians in seven states, you might want your local county government to contract with your office and maybe two other therapists to come in and provide services. In fact, in fact, that reminds me, I'm coaching someone right now in the Pacific Northwest who a big part of her practice has turned out to be that county governments and major organizations in her community are are asking her to come in and do work for them, like to create, like do group group training and all that kind of stuff. And it's turned out to be quite lucrative because when there are pilot projects they want to try or they've got a problem and they're not sure how to do it, she's like, Let me see if I can come up with something. Yes. It's really like you become the first person that people think of. You are top of mind when an opportunity pops up. And I also like what you said that you had you had no idea how to do this in the beginning. You started small locally with one pediatrician, figured out what worked, tried things on, and then began to grow from there. I love that too. I'm gonna I'm mindful of the time. I think we could probably talk for three days, which is actually you just had a summit about this. I should mention that you just conducted a two day summit where, in fact, you did do exactly this. Yes. Um, and I know you're gonna be doing some more of those. Jetta, tell people how to find you. Because as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking if I had known someone like you earlier in my career, like you would have been the person I would have wanted to hook up to because I did have big ideas. And some people actually do want to build an empire. And you have the fact that you are doing this in a way that doesn't leave you exhausted and burned out, and you still have a life and you have a, you know, a sweet daughter. Like I just, you're doing all the things, but you're doing it in a way that works like on in it works financially, it works spiritually, it works energetically, it works physically. And and you with that person that you were when you left Nestle to go to law school and you were like, Yeah, I'm making all the money, but this is empty money. Now you're making you're still making good money, really good money. Yes, absolutely. You're at eight figures, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Yeah. The clinical practice at eight, and then I built two seven-figure businesses alongside that. So it we get to grow and build at our scale, you know. And so one of the things, and now, you know, I work nine months out of the year on like I get to choose, right? The things really aligned, right? And and I'm planning to build a year sabbatical right in, and which I never thought I could do outside of academia. I've created a pension for my team. And so for me, that's legacy living. Like, I don't want to just what I leave behind when I'm no longer here. What do I have the opportunity to create while I'm here that changes lives? And I get to start with the people that have agreed to work alongside me, right? And so for me, that's my team, and as well as as many therapists as I can touch and inspire and you know, and help. That's really the thing that makes me all of this has happened in community. And so where folks can find me, I'm Dr. Jeddah on all platforms, like all of the platforms, except for Twitter. Someone took my name on Twitter. So for real? Yeah, someone took how dare them. We have the we have this, they have the same initials as me, but they're not like DR is like their first and second, you know, initial, and then we have the same name. And so I've not got it. Yeah, yeah. So I'm Dr. Jeddah on all platforms, otherwise. And then I have the purposeful and profitable therapist community on Facebook where it's a completely free group where we just have these conversations and and normalize rest, and that you get to say no, so you can say yes on purpose, right? And I think that's the piece that matters the most.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:08:11

Yes, I love that so much. We will make sure. So, and and y'all, you spell ageta a-j-i-t-a. So when I look at it, I pronounce it ajita, yes, you know, or agita. So it's Dr. Ajeta D-R, and then A-J-I-T-A is where you'll find them, and we'll link to below. And it's Robinson, of course. And the purposeful and profitable, is that what you said? Yes. Or therapist. Okay. Therapist, yes. So we'll find that as well. And y'all, you know, as I bring this to a close, when I talk about what an ideal practice is, I mean a practice that is ideal for you. And that's very different from one person to another. But the one thing that I think should not be different from one person to another is that you need to be making money. And you need to be making money in a way that feels good to you. So it that whole transition that Ageta made from corporate to the mental health world, and that she took the corporate talents and skills with her, but reconnected with her soul, the same process. Like this is why this is an okay thing to do. This is a good thing to do. You don't, yeah, I preach this so much, but you don't help anybody by playing small or by being broke. That just doesn't work. On the other hand, when you run a really successful practice, look how many lives she's impacting. It is it's immeasurable the difference that this one woman is making, not only just right now, but in generations to come because she's impacting the families of her clients, the families of her staff. It's it's just really it's powerful and beautiful. And this is what social workers can do, this is what psychologists can do, this is what counselors can do, this is what energy healers can do. Yeah, we all have the world needs us, but we need to be making money. Profit-centered people forward. Profit-centered people forward. Can I get an amen?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

Amen.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:10:13

Oh, all right. Well, thank you, Ageta, so much for being here today. Thank you for telling us the rich full version of your story because it, I mean, I I have to fight not to cry. It was like just so, so touching and so inspiring. And I, Lord, there's no telling where you're going next, but it's gonna be fun to watch. So thank you for being on the show. It's really been awesome. Thank you for having me. So I always ask everybody, I almost forgot to ask you this. I always ask everybody at the end, is there anything I haven't asked you, is there anything that you feel called to share? Is there anything else that you want to say that will make this conversation complete?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

I think I would just share that we all get to choose how we do this work, but we all only have one life to live and just make sure that that life honors you. I trust that as therapists, we'll we'll do good by other people. And and we don't have to choose or self-abandon in order to make a lasting impact on the lives of others. Like be a good steward of the life that you have. It's the only one you have. Amen.

Wendy Pitts Reeves 1:11:31

I feel like I just want to take a moment. Thank you, sweetheart. Thank you so very much. And y'all, I hope, I hope you will listen to this more than once. And when you're having a bad day, go back and listen to it again. Because, and when you're trying to decide where to go with your practice, there's real strategy here as well. Really good strategies that I bet you money, most of the people in your area have never thought of. So, this is a way you can serve more people, make more money, do more good, have more fun. All right, everyone, have a great week, and I will see you next week, right here, same time, same bat station on ideal practice. Bye, everybody. Hey, y'all. If this program has become important to you, if ideal practice matters, it would mean so much to me if you'd be willing to take just a minute to do one or two of the following things. First of all, would you follow or subscribe to the show here at Ideal Practice? Following me helps you because you'll never miss an episode, but it helps me as well for all kinds of reasons. To do that, all you have to do is go to the show page for Ideal Practice on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. There, just click on the plus sign that you'll usually find in the top right hand corner, or click on the word follow that you're going to find somewhere there on that page. Of all the things, this really is the most important thing you can do for the podcast itself. While you're there, it would be extra special if you would be willing to give me a five-star rating. And even better than that, a review with your own words. Your words matter. And when you write what you feel, what you think, you uplift and encourage others. And I love that. If you want to go a step further than that, take your favorite episode or two, one of the ones that has meant a lot to you, and share it with a friend. Could you do one or two of those things for me? I promise I will love you forever. You guys matter to me, and I value your support more than I can possibly say. Thank you, sweet friend, for anything you can do to help me out and support the show. I'll see you again soon.